New Danstar Belle Saison Dry Yeast?

Pilgarlic said:

Anyone have any experience yet with this yeast at cooler ferm temps? I pitched yesterday into 1.052 wort and it's at 68-70 room temp.

I've had GREAT success with this yeast in the past, but each time it was at 78 room temp.

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I took Jamil's advice, pitched low 60s and brought it up in the mid 70s to attenuate. OG 1.070, FG 1.000 (with 10% sugar). One of my favorite brews yet. Great fruit, some clove. When I rebrew this soon I'm going to carb a bit more and dry hop with saaz.

I drank mine young and found it did not improve with age, but ymmv, mine was hopped very mildly and that was a factor.

Just checked on my saison I brewed with this last Wednesday. 5lbs oat malt, 5 lbs pale ale malt, .25 caravienne, 1 lb Simplicity sugar, 1oz hops at 60 and another at 5 left. Its down to 1.005 already, I am surprised as I had a harder time keeping the temp up. My house is at 65 so I assumed ambient plus yeast activity would bring it up higher. It tastes ok so far and is cloudy as hell. I ordered a brew belt that should come tomorrow, I wonder though if it is too late to raise the temp and squeeze out a couple points and some funk.

The funk comes from early fermentation, but some heat at the end will help dry it out and balance the fruit esters. Won't get too much drier with that grain bill though. If you give it an extra week at room temp or higher you might get to 1.002-3.

Any thoughts for using this in a Delerium Tremens clone?

If you want a dry yeast for a Tremens clone I would go with a couple packs of Fermentis T-58. As I am sure you know it is a pretty strong brew. You might be able to get away with using the Danstar Belle if you ferment at cooler temps, like 65-68. I think they recommend the White Labs Belgian Golden Ale yeast. I have read that you can make some good Belgian styles with T-58, like Belgian Strong ales and Tripels.

Yeah, even if you managed to ferment this at 55F it would still be a saison. Saison is technically a belgian strong but the yeast character is pretty different from all the others.

fearwig said:

Saison is technically a belgian strong

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What??

fearwig said:

Yeah, even if you managed to ferment this at 55F it would still be a saison. Saison is technically a belgian strong but the yeast character is pretty different from all the others.

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By what standard is it a belgian strong? Certainly it's not listed as a strong ale under bjcp guidelines.

samwhois said:

I have read that you can make some good Belgian styles with T-58, like Belgian Strong ales and Tripels.

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my experience has not been good with T58. it's way too peppery and phenolic and doesn't produce any nice belgian esters. i haven't used it extensively, mostly because my few experiences with it have been so negative that i didn't want to pursue it any further.

fearwig said:

Saison is technically a belgian strong

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saisons can be strong belgians (as in belgians with high alcohol), but they are not belgian strongs in the sense that belgian strongs are defined as a style (belgian golden strong, belgian dark strong).

You're right, it's obviously in 19, basically the definitive beer in 19--I don't know where that came from, I knew it was counterintuitive, but I still went all, "well, TECHNICALLY". Head hung in shame, etc. I'm itching to go edit that post and make you all look like crazy people.

I swear I read someone say that the other day and thought, "Well really? That's strange, but I guess so!" Or maybe I had a ridiculously geeky dream about counterintuitive beer reclassification.

Considering a Cherry Saison. How do I get more fruity esters than spicyness out of this yeast. Would keeping it fermenting at closer to 90* F help? Maybe i'll split and only do 1gal for the cherry, 1 gal at ambient and 1 gal at 85*-90*. Recommendations?

I got more fruit notes with lower temps (~70s ambient) and more spiciness in the higher range. Either way I'd ferment in the lower range if you want any Belgian yeast to play nice with fruit. I'm sure it will be great. I used strawberries in one batch, came out awesome, lots of fruit aroma and flavor but dry as a bone. Very refreshing.


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Tasted my oat saison brewed with this 10 days ago and it has a ton of citrus. I only used 2oz of whole leaf cascade so I assume some of the citrus if from the yeast, I did ferment on the lower end of the range. This does not seem like a very flocculant yeast at all though.

TimFarAway said:

Considering a Cherry Saison. How do I get more fruity esters than spicyness out of this yeast. Would keeping it fermenting at closer to 90* F help? Maybe i'll split and only do 1gal for the cherry, 1 gal at ambient and 1 gal at 85*-90*. Recommendations?

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I fermented this in the mid-80s and got a lot of cloves, some pepper and not much fruit. I would try it cooler as others have suggested.

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Anyone having any problems with fusels with this strain when starting a fermentation as warm as some here have? My usual saison schedule is to start at 68 then ramp up to 80 over a couple days when it starts going hard. I find that schedule gets the full attenuation without the fusels you get when starting that high. They would be really noticeable as the beer warms.

I did not notice any issues....

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I didn't notice any fusels fermenting in the mid 80s, so I don't think your usual schedule presents a problem.

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I don't feel like you'd get fusels from a saison unless you underpitched dramatically.

This may have already been answered, but I'm wondering how this compares to Wyeast's French Saison (3711)?

Corey_SS said:

This may have already been answered, but I'm wondering how this compares to Wyeast's French Saison (3711)?

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It is a beast like 3711. Every time I have used it it fermented low. I get a little more spice and a little less citrus than 3711. The other good thing is that it is like 3711 in that it does not need really high temps to finish out, but works good at high temps.

Corey_SS said:

This may have already been answered, but I'm wondering how this compares to Wyeast's French Saison (3711)?

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One of these days I'm going to do a split batch and compare them side by side to find out. But just based off of my experience with both, there isn't much difference IMO.


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has anyone compared Mangrove Jack M27 belgian ale yeast to this?

I have not used the Mangrove Jack yeast, but looking at the temperature range, I would guess it is closer to the Dupont strain.

I had not taken a gravity reading yet and just did. 1.002 from 1.050, awesome considering this fermented in the low 60s.

Yep, the whole "get saisons hot" thing doesn't really matter either way for this yeast, it will attenuate and it will produce pleasant esters even in the 60s. You will sometimes squeeze out another point if you bring it up above room temp for a while, even if it's 1.002, but it's not a big deal at that point.

Hey everyone. Was wondering if any of you have gone below 60 with this yeast? Here's my situation: brewed yesterday, all extract, og 1.058, chilled down to 60 and pitched properly rehydrated and cooled belle saison. And just as I was wrapping a perfect brew day, jinx. I break my aquarium heater that keeps my "beerquarium" -- where my carboy sits -- at the appropriate temp. It was too late to get another one yesterday.

Anyway, now the carboy is sitting at 58 degrees ambient. I WILL of course be getting another heater, but just wondering if anyone has any experience with this yeast getting this low.

(Oh, and this is my first time using this yeast. I usually use 3711 for my saisons.)

Thanks in advance for any insight you can lend.

Cheers!

I started mine around 61F, though it may have even been closer to 59F when I pitched. It was great, perfectly fruity, FG under 1.000. I'll be trying it at higher temps next time, but the result was not at all "un-saison".

ngunsch said:

Hey everyone. Was wondering if any of you have gone below 60 with this yeast? Here's my situation: brewed yesterday, all extract, og 1.058, chilled down to 60 and pitched properly rehydrated and cooled belle saison. And just as I was wrapping a perfect brew day, jinx. I break my aquarium heater that keeps my "beerquarium" -- where my carboy sits -- at the appropriate temp. It was too late to get another one yesterday.

Anyway, now the carboy is sitting at 58 degrees ambient. I WILL of course be getting another heater, but just wondering if anyone has any experience with this yeast getting this low.

(Oh, and this is my first time using this yeast. I usually use 3711 for my saisons.)

Thanks in advance for any insight you can lend.

Cheers!

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I got good results with gallon batches of leftover wort at 61-62°F. They're clean and fruity, like pineapples, mango, but different from the high temp fermentations.

Thanks for the replies. Good to know I don't have to fret too much. I ordered two heaters from Amazon, but they won't be here until Tuesday. In the meantime, I moved the carboy up to a warmer part of the house (mid-60s). When the heaters arrive, I plan to raise it into the 70s for a week and then finish in the 80s.

Cheers.

Hopbrad- yes I have used the mangroves Belgian yeast and it's no where as good as the belle saison yeast. I didn't get much in the realm of the classic saison flavor in my beer. Reminded me more of t58. Wouldn't buy it again.


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shoreman said:

Hopbrad- yes I have used the mangroves Belgian yeast and it's no where as good as the belle saison yeast. I didn't get much in the realm of the classic saison flavor in my beer. Reminded me more of t58. Wouldn't buy it again.


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ah, not a huge fan of T-58, but i only used it once. ill keep the mangrove on the backburner for now then. thanks!

Used this for a my first attempt at a saison last week.
Chilled down to about 60 when I pitched, dry. It was my second brew session of the day and I was tired and maybe a few beers into the day so I failed to recognize the recommendation of rehydration on this yeast.
After 24 hours, zero activity. Nothing in airlock. No movement in carboy. The break and trub that made it into the carboy were idly floating around. Looked bad.
I don't have great temp control at my house, other than garage (cool), downstairs (low 60s) and upstairs (70 ambient), generally.
I had planned for fermentation to take off downstairs initially and as that slowed and temps came back down, to move it upstairs and start to raise it as it finished up.
Instead, I moved upstairs initially to get it going. Another 24 laters -- two days after brew day, it finally took off. So I moved back to down and got a blow off assembled and it's rolled pretty hard the last five days or so. Temps were as high as 72 during peak activity in carboy. Now back in mid 60s. I'll move it back upstairs in a day or two raise it back up.
Have not taken gravity sample since pre-pitche (OG: 1.065)

Just my experience with the yeast. I gotta think that rehydrating it would have alleviated some of this hassle.

I did use a small starter just to get things jogging. I don't know how this yeast behaves when pitched dry at 60F. Rehydration might make a difference, if you didn't.

Looking forward to brewing Cottage House Saison in a few weeks with this yeast.

The Saisons I've done with this yeast have all been below 1.060 and fermented in the upper 60s to low 80s. I never rehydrate and it usually goes to work quick. I think you had the temp a little low so it took the bugs some time to get going.


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I rehydrated a pack an pitched into a five gallon farmhouse last Thursday. Pitch temp was 68˚F. I have yet to see any action in the airlock. None. Zip. Peeked inside and saw evidence of a very thin krausen. Took a hydrometer reading last night: OG was 1.051, last night it read 1.010.

Not sure what is going on...

Crucial-BBQ said:

Not sure what is going on...

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CO2 leaking out somewhere else?

I think I am going to put "airlock is not a language, don't try to learn it" in my sig. I'm glad to see you took a hydrometer sample too, because that is a language you can learn.

atoughram said:

CO2 leaking out somewhere else?

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Yeah, I am assuming...

Crucial-BBQ said:

Yeah, I am assuming...

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Now worries then. You wont get activity in the airlock if you're not air tight, but proven by Hydo readings, it's fermenting. I've got one going right now, but it doesn't look real vigorous after 24 hours, except a healthy head of krausen.