Please Critique Idea for Cutting Some Time from AG...

I've only done extract brews before but plan to soon move to all grain. I have two turkey frying burners and two pots... both are 6 gallon. I could build a mash tun but, instead, here's what I'm thinking:

Heat the strike water in one pot... and mash in it via a bag.

Heat the sparge water in the other pot... after mash is completed, transfer bag (and grain) to sparge pot. As sparging is occuring, I'd be cranking the heat to the first runnings in the mash pot.

After sparge times out, remove the grain / bag... but, instead of pouring the sparge water into the first pot, pour the heat to the sparge water with the separate burner.

After both have boiled down a bit, put them together in one of the pots to achieve target volume.

What do you-uns think of that? Wild idea?

BigTexun said:

What do you-uns think of that? Wild idea?

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I think the BigTexun needs a bigger pot...six gallon pot in texas???

I would just insulate the pot during the mash w/ some blankets or sleeping bag. Or just put the pot in a warm oven to hold temp.

Search around for some of the "No Sparge" all grain setups. They might give you some good direction. But they would still require a bigger pot. As you would need to mash with the amount of water needed for boil amount + grain absorption.

Problem 1: holding mash temperature. You will need to insulate you pots well, or have some of control on your flame to hold the temperature steady.

Problem 2: Hops. Which pot you gonna add them too? In the first, you'll have a higher OG than the average, so hop utilization will be lower. In the second, utilization will be higher, plus it'll be coming to a boil later.

Not insurmountable though. People do split boils like this on the stove top. If you wanted to do a full boil, you'd need a bigger pot, even with a mash tun. Let us know how it works!

Sounds brilliant.

My guess is that efficiency will be better because you are starting with a new pot and water.

Direct fired is doable, and certainly has a precedent, but is less consistent.

BioBeing said:

Problem 1: holding mash temperature. You will need to insulate you pots well, or have some of control on your flame to hold the temperature steady.

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This will depend a lot on the air temp. DB says that with his stovetop setup he removes his mash from the flame and only loses a degree or so as long as he keeps it covered, especially if his pot is mostly full. When I tried his method for a partial mash I mistakenly thought that I was over temp and took the mash off the stove, uncovered, and stirred it quite a bit and only managed to drop 2 degrees from my mash temp in a half hour. This will also be affected by the wind and whether your pot is aluminum or stainless. Mine is stainless.

If it were me, I'd still insulate it though.

Should work fine.

floyduww said:

Search around for some of the "No Sparge" all grain setups. They might give you some good direction. But they would still require a bigger pot. As you would need to mash with the amount of water needed for boil amount + grain absorption.

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I'm sure I've made some bad assumptions... they are:

1. The #1 pot (the mash pot) would only need to hold 1.25 quarts per lb of grain. If the grain bill was 12 lbs, that's only 15 quarts for my 24 gallon pot. How much volume does the grain displace? If it is more than 9 quarts, I'd be up the creek.

BioBeing said:

Problem 2: Hops. Which pot you gonna add them too? In the first, you'll have a higher OG than the average, so hop utilization will be lower. In the second, utilization will be higher, plus it'll be coming to a boil later.

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My thought would be to add the hops after I combined the boiling liquid from both pots together... my thought is that I'd be through the hot breaks and head space would not be as critical.

Have to be awful careful pouring the boiling liquid from one pot to the other though....

?

slowbie said:

This will depend a lot on the air temp.

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Perhaps this is too simplistic but, if it is cold outside, and the mash temp starts dropping too fast, what'd be wrong with lighting the burner on a very low setting and kicking it back up a few degrees to hold target? With the grain in a bag, I could easily keep it off the bottom of the pot to avoid overheating that on the bottom. I've done this with steeping grains during extract brews and it worked fine. Just have to be very careful not to overshoot target.

?

BioBeing said:

If you wanted to do a full boil, you'd need a bigger pot, even with a mash tun. Let us know how it works!

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Again, just brainstorming / planning... but, if I used both burners to do a lot of the boiling down before combining the two together... I'd be close to my combined target volume before consolidating into one pot... my pot will hold the target volume.

That is really the crux of this idea... by using two pots and two burners, I could cut down the "boil down time"... because I could add twice as much heat and have twice as much evaporative surface area. Once I got close to target (aka: Pot 1 plus Pot 2 = 5.5 gallons), I'd consolidate, add hops, and finish in the more conventional fashion.

I'm not against building a mash tun... I'm just not sure that this wouldn't be faster and result in a lot less cleanup, etc.

More thoughts? (be brutal, I have a thick head and a thicker skin).

Thanks!

Boiling 2 pots for 1/2 hour != 1 pot for 1 hour.

You still need the time for the hops to properly flavor your beer.

floyduww said:

Boiling 2 pots for 1/2 hour != 1 pot for 1 hour.

You still need the time for the hops to properly flavor your beer.

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That's what I'm thinking, So, you get down to 5.5 gallons and then add the hops, and then boil for another hour?

splitting the boil isn't a problem if you've only got two 6 gallon pots. You can start with 3.5 in each, and just split the hops equally and combine after they're cooled.

BigTexun said:

I'm sure I've made some bad assumptions... they are:

1. The #1 pot (the mash pot) would only need to hold 1.25 quarts per lb of grain. If the grain bill was 12 lbs, that's only 15 quarts for my 24 gallon pot. How much volume does the grain displace? If it is more than 9 quarts, I'd be up the creek.

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you'll have no problem mashing 12# in a 6 gallon pot at that water/grain ratio.....should be able to do 15# or so.

floyduww said:

Boiling 2 pots for 1/2 hour != 1 pot for 1 hour.

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Boiling two pots for 1/2 hour = 1/2 hour because they'd be boiling at the same time.

floyduww said:

You still need the time for the hops to properly flavor your beer.

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Yes, I'd still have to boil the combined mix for an hour for the hops... so, I suppose this idea isn't so much about saving time... but, saving the need for more equipment (eg: a mash tun). I guess I just need to build one.

How big does it need to be?

PS: Thanks to all for your patience!

Seems like you are trying an overall batch spage after your mash.

What you could do is a nomal mash.

Pull your grains

put your grains into the second pot. (but don't heat the first one yet)

Now for the part not yet discussed. Have a vessel (bucket, clean trash can) big enough to hold the full boil volume.

Pour both pots into the bucket, give a quick stir(pouring is probably good enough).

now split that between the pots. spilt hops evenly between the pots.

boil for 1 hour in the seperate pots.

cool and transfer each to the fermentor.

BuzzCraft said:

you'll have no problem mashing 12# in a 6 gallon pot at that water/grain ratio.....should be able to do 15# or so.

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Can you tell me what the average size grain bill is for a 5 gallon all grain batch?

floyduww said:

Seems like you are trying an overall batch spage after your mash.

What you could do is a nomal mash.

Pull your grains

put your grains into the second pot. (but don't heat the first one yet)

Now for the part not yet discussed. Have a vessel (bucket, clean trash can) big enough to hold the full boil volume.

Pour both pots into the bucket, give a quick stir(pouring is probably good enough).

now split that between the pots. spilt hops evenly between the pots.

boil for 1 hour in the seperate pots.

cool and transfer each to the fermentor.

Click to expand...

I LIKE that idea! THANKS!!!

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f11/how-big-your-mash-tun-needs-123585/

A 5 gallon tun will suffice for most 5 gallon batches of "normal" strength beer. If you plan on doing big beers, you'll need up to 10 gallons.

And yes - mixing the wort before the boil sounds the way to go. Not really a time saver, but saves you getting a new pot!

How are you going to cool though? You'll need a lot of ice for 5 gallons of boiling wort, or two ICs?