Berliner Pellicle

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srob18

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After about 2 weeks and a nice taste test i found this bad boy today on top of my Berliner. The beer really isn't that sour(which i'm not sure how it isn't...) but tastes great!

I'm going to rack and age on some raspberrys this week.

top pel.jpg
 
After about 2 weeks and a nice taste test i found this bad boy today on top of my Berliner. The beer really isn't that sour(which i'm not sure how it isn't...) but tastes great!

I'm going to rack and age on some raspberrys this week.

That's a great picture. I would like to try to do a sour but am not sure I have the patience. Do Berliners have a quicker turnaround than other sours?
 
That's a great picture. I would like to try to do a sour but am not sure I have the patience. Do Berliners have a quicker turnaround than other sours?

Everything. I've read and heard makes it sound like it can take anywhere from 3 month to a year. It depends on taste and preference. Right now I'm shooting for the 6-8 month range because i want to see if it will sour more with time
 
Added 5 Lbs of Raspberries to it, I'll check the gravity and sourness in 2 month. The beer seemed much more sour then my initial taste test!

unnamed.jpg
 
You can turn a berliner around very fast. I've gone into the keg at 2 weeks. Just need to kettle sour.

This is true, i guess it depends on the souring method. Mine was is a pretty different method from what i've read up upon. I should have clarified that the 3-8 month range was based on my method and not other souring methods!
 
This is true, i guess it depends on the souring method. Mine was is a pretty different method from what i've read up upon. I should have clarified that the 3-8 month range was based on my method and not other souring methods!

First berliner I did was the Kristen England method. I used L. delbrueckii first (not held at a high temp), then pitched S05 a few days later. It was in the bottle within the week. It took about 3 months for it to reach a good level of tartness. it's over 3 years old now and it's still great.

Now I kettle sour with lacto brevis, I'm just starting to play around with Omega lacto blend but I've been really happy with brevis so far. You just need to pitch it first and keep it hop. I've got a Gose and Berliner on tap now that I got down to 3.01 pH with Brevis, I pitched Sach. Trois to finish it out.
 
First berliner I did was the Kristen England method. I used L. delbrueckii first (not held at a high temp), then pitched S05 a few days later. It was in the bottle within the week. It took about 3 months for it to reach a good level of tartness. it's over 3 years old now and it's still great.

Now I kettle sour with lacto brevis, I'm just starting to play around with Omega lacto blend but I've been really happy with brevis so far. You just need to pitch it first and keep it hop. I've got a Gose and Berliner on tap now that I got down to 3.01 pH with Brevis, I pitched Sach. Trois to finish it out.

I just did a 154f mash for 3 hours then a 90 min boil and pitched my US-05 with a quarter pound of 2 row. I was told it would take about 3-8 months to sour. I think I'll wait at least 3 months before I bottle it. It's really developing some nasty bubbles now that the raspberries are in there lol
 
I just did a 154f mash for 3 hours then a 90 min boil and pitched my US-05 with a quarter pound of 2 row. I was told it would take about 3-8 months to sour. I think I'll wait at least 3 months before I bottle it. It's really developing some nasty bubbles now that the raspberries are in there lol

Good luck! Be sure to chime back in and let us know how it goes.

I gotta ask, though, why the 3 hour mash?
 
Good luck! Be sure to chime back in and let us know how it goes.

I gotta ask, though, why the 3 hour mash?

It was my first sour beer try so I just went into my LHBS and said i wanted to do a sour beer can you give me a recipe and the guy gave me his Berliner recipe and told me to do it that way. Maybe someone who has done it similarly could chime in. Also, i did it that way because there was no way possible of keeping the wort at 100+ degrees for souring for multiple days like i see most people do.

If you have any advice id gladly take it for my next go around!
 
It was my first sour beer try so I just went into my LHBS and said i wanted to do a sour beer can you give me a recipe and the guy gave me his Berliner recipe and told me to do it that way. Maybe someone who has done it similarly could chime in. Also, i did it that way because there was no way possible of keeping the wort at 100+ degrees for souring for multiple days like i see most people do.

If you have any advice id gladly take it for my next go around!

Here's how I've been doing them.

Mash, sparge, then bring to 180F+. Let it cool down to 120F or under then pitched L. Brevis or your preferred lacto. Taste it or check pH after 2 days, it's going to be tricky and personal preference after this. The wort will still be sweet but also sour. Once it reaches the sourness that you want you can either boil it to kill the lacto or you can pitch yeast or brett or both. I've stopped boiling it to kill it recently and I like the results. I've stopped using hops in berliners as well. You're just working against yourself. You can try dropping them, works really well.

As far as keeping your heat up you can use your mash tun if you use a cooler, heating pad, brew belt, space heater in a small enclosure, aquarium heater, etc. I've been pitching L. Brevis at 120 and letting free fall and it sours pretty well. You could also try using Omega's Lacto blend which works well with a free fall fermentation profile supposedly.

I have never used the lacto from grains because, to me, it's sketchy and unreliable.
 
I've never known someone to pitch malt into the fermentor but I guess it's working. Most people who I've seen use 2 row for lacto leave it in there until it tastes as sour as they want then rack/boil depending where they added the 2 row. This will be interesting to see how the final product comes and I'm interested in the sourness.
 
I've never known someone to pitch malt into the fermentor but I guess it's working. Most people who I've seen use 2 row for lacto leave it in there until it tastes as sour as they want then rack/boil depending where they added the 2 row. This will be interesting to see how the final product comes and I'm interested in the sourness.

I was thinking the same thing. Is this a typical method for souring a Berliner? Just age it on the malt?
 
I was thinking the same thing. Is this a typical method for souring a Berliner? Just age it on the malt?

There is no typical. I've seen it a few ways.

1. Sour mash with 2 row and keep it at temp until it's as sour as you want, remove 2 row and boil.

2. Sour with lacto in primary until desierd then add sacch.

3. Pitch lacto at 120 and when it drops to fermentation temps add sacch.

4. Add all cultures, or a mix culture, at fermentation temps and wait.

I went the mix way and it will probably take the longest. Berliners should be able to be turned around in a month according to the guys who make them in my brew club.
 
Here's how I've been doing them.

Mash, sparge, then bring to 180F+. Let it cool down to 120F or under then pitched L. Brevis or your preferred lacto. Taste it or check pH after 2 days, it's going to be tricky and personal preference after this. The wort will still be sweet but also sour. Once it reaches the sourness that you want you can either boil it to kill the lacto or you can pitch yeast or brett or both. I've stopped boiling it to kill it recently and I like the results. I've stopped using hops in berliners as well. You're just working against yourself. You can try dropping them, works really well.

As far as keeping your heat up you can use your mash tun if you use a cooler, heating pad, brew belt, space heater in a small enclosure, aquarium heater, etc. I've been pitching L. Brevis at 120 and letting free fall and it sours pretty well. You could also try using Omega's Lacto blend which works well with a free fall fermentation profile supposedly.

I have never used the lacto from grains because, to me, it's sketchy and unreliable.


I am currently doing this method and have a question for anyone who can help. I cooled my wort down to 120 and pitched l delbrueckii. This is before I read how this is probably not the best strain for this. It's been sitting for 12 hours with this at around 110 and I'm seeing no activity. Is this normal?

Also I decided I am not going to boil this after it sours. Do you aerate the wort before you pitch normal yeast?

Any other advice? Will I get decent acidity with delbrueckii using this method? I am keeping it hot.
 
I've never known someone to pitch malt into the fermentor but I guess it's working. Most people who I've seen use 2 row for lacto leave it in there until it tastes as sour as they want then rack/boil depending where they added the 2 row. This will be interesting to see how the final product comes and I'm interested in the sourness.

I'm Bottling this tomorrow, I will do a taste test every month to let you all know if it sours up and how the beer develops. When i tasted my gravity sample that came out at 1.002 it tasted like a nice lambic (although i'd like it to be more tart).

Thanks to everyone who has given advice on how to make Berliners. The style is fantastic!
 
Well I cracked the first bottle of my batch of Berliner that has been going since Early Febuary. Once my Gravity hit 1.002 I decided I wanted to be able to drink it eventually!

As many of you who are a part of this Berliner thread know my methods for souring were quite unusual. I'm writing this shocked...seriously, because it's been only 4/5 months since I used the US-05 and 2Row combination and this beer is very good and sour.

Tasting Notes:

Smells Funky, I'd say like sour Greek yogurt and raspberrys with a hint of grain.
Taste: tart, much tarter then the gravity test sampling. This beer will age well. Raspberries give it a nice fruity lambic type bite. This beer is probably more a true hybrid of a lambic and Berliner right now.
Pour/Appearance: as shown, it's got a very light pink/red hue to it thanks to the 5 lbs of raspberries.

My only critic is that it's pretty flat. I added Champagineyeast at bottling, but all in all if the beer still tastes this good even without carbing more I will be estatic.

Thank you so much to everyone who offered advice on making Berliners, I look forward to using many methods to keep making this sweet beer!

image.jpg
 
I'm thinking of racking mine to free up the carboy. I have a Lambic I need to add raspberries to and let it age a few months before bottling and enjoying in September. I'll probably carbonate this one pretty high the put it in bombers and set it in the garage. I had a lot of Newcastle bottles given to me so maybe I'll see what happens in a clear bottle after a few months of garage temp swings.
 
I'm thinking of racking mine to free up the carboy. I have a Lambic I need to add raspberries to and let it age a few months before bottling and enjoying in September. I'll probably carbonate this one pretty high the put it in bombers and set it in the garage. I had a lot of Newcastle bottles given to me so maybe I'll see what happens in a clear bottle after a few months of garage temp swings.

Yeah I'm surprised my beer didn't carb, I used sugar and yeast. Maybe next time I should just scrap the yeast and use more sugar. I was worried about bombs because I wasn't sure what the bugs are. Hopefully it will carb up more in the next months
 
First berliner I did was the Kristen England method. I used L. delbrueckii first (not held at a high temp), then pitched S05 a few days later. It was in the bottle within the week. It took about 3 months for it to reach a good level of tartness. it's over 3 years old now and it's still great.

Now I kettle sour with lacto brevis, I'm just starting to play around with Omega lacto blend but I've been really happy with brevis so far. You just need to pitch it first and keep it hop. I've got a Gose and Berliner on tap now that I got down to 3.01 pH with Brevis, I pitched Sach. Trois to finish it out.

I'm curious about your quick turnaround. I have one going right now using this exact method, except I've used a house lacto culture. I was under the impression that co-pitching, without boiling to kill the bugs, would extend fermentation to about two months.
 

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