Two yeasts for chocolate banana stout

I am trying to come up with a chocolate banana stout and have researched using bananas but my search has led me into using yeast which produce banana like esters. I do not want the banana like flavor or aroma to be overpowering and was considering trying to use two yeasts. Denny's favorite 50 and possibly something like German Wheat for the banana profile.
I know one yeast will generally overcome the other and that is what I am counting on. If I added a smaller volume of the banana profile yeast and a larger volume of an opposing yeast, will the banana flavor still come through? Both would be using the Wyeast activator packs. Still learning I apologize if this is an absurd question.

If you're using a german hefe yeast, you're going to get a strong clove along with your banana profile. I tried this yeast with a raspberry wheat last year and found the clove REALLY came through almost overpowering. I like hefe's but, won't do that again.

I like chocolate stouts as well and use Wyeast American Ale II. I have thought about doing a chocolate / banana stout using this yeast and just racking my into a secondary onto a 'boiled / thick banana solution'.

I definitely want to avoid the clove flavor. I had though of boiling the banana and adding to secondary but had read that boiling bananas changes the taste and it is actually a worse flavor. I tried this experiment earlier today and concluded that boiling indeed produced a somewhat odd flavor. I did however just boil some banana chunks.

Really interested in recipe and process on this one, love chocolate and banana's!

I like the idea, but it's going to be a tough one to pull off using yeast. As previously stated, all yeasts (that I'm aware of) that produce banana also produce clove. Although, the clove may not be quite as apparent in a stout since it could possibly get muddled in with the flavor profile of the darker grains. This could go a lot of different ways...

This would be a first time for a banana like yeast so I am really unaware of how strong the clove-like aroma/flavors would be? Is there any strain that tends to have less clove? This is definitely a big brew as I was looking to make a chocolate banana imperial stout. I am hoping with the large grain bill, it will hopefully hide the clove as stated.

I read somewhere on the forums (I forget where and am a couple craft beers deep or I'd link it) that if you ferment with a higher temp early on, and then cool it down you can pick up more of of the banana esters, and less of the clove. However, I don't know how much they actually add to flavor. What's the recipe you're looking at?

No advice but I'll be very interested to know how it turns out. Subscribed.

I'm no expert on this matter, but I'd still wager that without wheat in the grist and a ferulic acid rest, you won't get any kind of overpowering clove notes.

I ended up doing more "research" and visited Canada this weekend. Visited a few breweries and brewpubs all weekend. MY last night in Toronto brought me to a brewpub called smokeless joe. I had a trappist beer to start as it was simply what had been recommended by the bartender. Well it was amazing and I was trying to figure out what the sweet fruity notes I had been tasting were. Well after a slight hiccup.... bananas. Clear as day bananas!!!!!! No cloves just bananas. I am hoping I was not a bit too tipsy to mistake this for a different flavor. I need to review the photos I had taken to try and find a bottle of this to attempt and isolate and culture some yeast if I cannot find info on what strain had been used. Granted this is a shot in the dark but its worth a shot.

Decided I am just going to bombard this thing with 6-10 pounds of blended banana as I do not have the time to experiment right now. I do not want a hint of banana in this beer. I really want it to come out. Seeing as to how this is probably going to end up at about 9.5-10 % ABV I am not too crazy about sanitizing the bananas however I am planning on blending the bananas with a enough volume of Templeton Rye to just ease on the side of caution. This will all be going in the secondary which will be a day or two from now.
I also really wanted the chocolate to come out so for the boil I had used 1 lb of powdered Cocoa. Really hoping this works out. So far so good. Smells like chocolate now just to conquer the bananas.

So have you decided not to use 2 yeasts? Because I would encourage you not to do that.

Here's what I think would happen:
The yeasts don't really start eating until they fully infect the beer, usually after several cycles of reproduction. Once one of the yeasts reaches the tipping point and has enough cells to start eating, it will destroy all the available oxygen and the other yeast will fall out, never having started fermenting, and not contributing any character whatsoever. You'd be better off using a banana esther yeast and managing your fermentation temps to keep it high enough to give banana notes, but not so high it spits out all kinds of flavors.

As to using bananas, I'm a little concerned about that. It seems like you might get some unwanted tannins and planty flavors. I would at least use very ripe or frozen bananas, like you would for banana bread.

Good luck! Tell us what happens.

Yes ended up just straying away form the two yeast idea. Ended up blending the bananas and of course the smell was simply amazing. Smells like a banana chocolate milkshake. Hopefully the smell will will remain in the end product. So far so good.

Sweet! Literally. Did you use super-ripe bananas? Either way, I am interested in knowing how it comes out.

Yes, used some very ripe bananas. I had to try it before I had put the bananas in and the chocolate is definitely there. Not an overwhelming chocolate but a nice lingering chocolate finish. I have really high hopes for this one.

I imagine with all that goes on in a chocolate stout any tannins or planty tastes will be nicely hidden beneath all the deliciousness. Wish I could taste the end product.

If all goes well I would definitely send one over once it is ready.....if all goes well. Really hoping the bananas don't bite me in the rear.

subscribed -- interesting brew indeed!

Subscribed as well! Where did you find the recipe or did you create it?

Subscribed! I gotta see how this one comes out too. My bud and I came up with an idea to do a choc/banana beer, but were thinking more along the lines of letting a hefe yeast do all the banana-ing as I haven't heard much good from actual bananas being used in beer. Eagerly awaiting the results!

As an alternative to boiling or soaking to sanitize, what about baking as a way to extract flavor beyond what a simple puree would do? I imagine it would bring out the sweetness in the banana (maybe too much so) and make it more fermentable? I have no idea what happens, I'm just throwing the idea out there.

The first time I did a pumpkin ale (a long time ago), I baked the pumpkin first. It worked quite well. It could have been called a braise. I put a little water in the bottom, covered it, and cooked it low for an hour or two (I can't remember).

I'm guessing you're already well on your way with this one, but why not skip the bananas and just spice it with isoamyl acetate? That's the banana flavor ester produced by the yeast and it's available commercially for the cooking/baking world. Then you could just use a clean ale yeast like 1056 and spice it to taste. Might be a lot easier.

Just racked to the keg tonight after 1 week with the bananas. I used a mesh bag to ensure no banana mush would end up in the keg. I had promised myself earlier I would taste it only after letting it sit for another 2 weeks but I had to know. The aroma is definitely bananas and a hint of chocolate. Taste was also bananas with that same lingering roasty chocolate flavor on the finish. Tastes really good so far! I have high expectations for this. Hopefully it gets better with a little more time. I'll put up a picture of the final product once its fully carbed.
I think a key to using bananas could be to blend them. I remember reading that someone had gotten only a hint of banana when slicing them. The banana in this beer is definitely not a hint at all. It is clearly there.

chicagobrew said:

I'm guessing you're already well on your way with this one, but why not skip the bananas and just spice it with isoamyl acetate? That's the banana flavor ester produced by the yeast and it's available commercially for the cooking/baking world. Then you could just use a clean ale yeast like 1056 and spice it to taste. Might be a lot easier.

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That is a good idea. The only reason I did not want to use extracts or similar products was simply due to fear of a fake banana taste.

This sounds pretty good, i'll need to try this at some point.
Also, I'm wondering if the clove notes from german hefeweizen yeast might actually be nice in this sort of stout...

rewster452 said:

The first time I did a pumpkin ale (a long time ago), I baked the pumpkin first. It worked quite well. It could have been called a braise. I put a little water in the bottom, covered it, and cooked it low for an hour or two (I can't remember).

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I thought about baking after I had already used the banana. I avoided heating after the little test run I had done prior to brewing this beer using bananas in some water. It didnt taste like bananas after boiling.

Ok here is the finished product. I was somewhat worried that the bananas would shadow the flavors in the beer but it has mellowed out a bit after carbonation and tastes a LOT better. Final ABV came out to 9.1% which was surprising as I was unable to taste how high the % was. It is going to be entered into a homebrew contest next week.
This was originally supposed to be an imperial stout however, every imperial stout I have had was thicker and almost syrupy. This beer has a creamy head but lacks that thickness. It is still good but I had really wished to achieve that thickness. That said is this still a stout or a porter?

I'd definitely like to see the recipe to your brew, it looks delicious. I'm toying around with the idea of making something similar to that

I also would like to see the recipe.

If you choose to go the yeast route, I would try 3056.
Obviously not as controlled as using actual bananas, but it does produce a nice banana flavor with minimal clove if you ferment favoring the esters.

Wyeast says "The balance can be manipulated towards ester production through increasing fermentation temperature, increasing the wort density, and decreasing the pitch rate".
Since you're going for a high gravity brew, I would lean toward underpitching vs. warmer temps so you don't get too much fusel alcohol production.

Sounds good. Post up that recipe.

Would love to see the recipe to this, it sounds great.

When I used to bake pies I used banana liqueur. It is all natural. Not fake because it comes from macerated bananas.

Might be a good alternative.