Gas or electric?

Some sweet rigs being built on here. I too am planning mine.

I am pretty settled on a single tier "Brutus" type deal.

Question is Gas or electric?

And why? Please give details with your answer. Why did you, if you have or still just planning like I am, use one over the other.

Thanks

Yes. For flexibility.

My rig uses gas for the fast, bulk heat, and electric for maintaining RIMS temps.

I love my electric setup. I never run out of fuel, I can heat my boil kettle and HLT faster than I used to on propane, I don't worry about CO or gas leaks. I theoretically could set it up to start heating my HLT so that it is ready to dough in when I get home from work.

conpewter said:

I love my electric setup. I never run out of fuel, I can heat my boil kettle and HLT faster than I used to on propane, I don't worry about CO or gas leaks. I theoretically could set it up to start heating my HLT so that it is ready to dough in when I get home from work.

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Somewhere out here on Brew world there is a guy trying to figure out how to hook up a web cam and brew FROM work.

All great points. Can I get some details on which elements u guys use and current draw per unit and as a system as a whole?

Etc.?

Simphoto02 said:

Somewhere out here on Brew world there is a guy trying to figure out how to hook up a web cam and brew FROM work.

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Could you imagine that? Automating your system to the point that you could brew from a remote location? The vorlauf and sparge operations would present a challenge.

I use 5500 watt elements, I only run one at at time since I'm on a 30 amp breaker. I think the draw for one is around 22 amps, I'd have to go look at my calculations. I have the 5500 W element in both the boil kettle and HLT, I didn't see a reason to go smaller in one or the other. They are ULWD elements so that it wont' scorch the wort.

arturo7 said:

Could you imagine that? Automating your system to the point that you could brew from a remote location? The vorlauf and sparge operations would present a challenge.

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I did read of one guy that can set up his system at night (water, grain, hops) and come back in the morning to wort ready to pitch yeast in to. I wouldn't want to do that though, I have fun brewing.

You wouldn't be able to enjoy the aroma, either.

I agree with GilaMinumBeer. I am using Natural Gas for the HLT and Boil Kettle and a PID controlled electric RIMS to maintain the MLT temperature. I never have to worry about running out of Natural Gas or Electricity. IMHO Natural Gas is a little bit safer than propane also.

conpewter said:

I use 5500 watt elements, I only run one at at time since I'm on a 30 amp breaker. I think the draw for one is around 22 amps, I'd have to go look at my calculations. I have the 5500 W element in both the boil kettle and HLT, I didn't see a reason to go smaller in one or the other. They are ULWD elements so that it wont' scorch the wort.

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I'll use electric like "conpewter" but have more power available so that I can run two 5.5KW elements in the HLT, MLT and Boil Keggle one at a time but being able to switch to two seperate units on 5.5KW each to maintain heat once up to temperature. This controlled by a BCS 460 controller.
Propane is way overpriced in my area, natural gas within 5' but rather run an all electric brewing system again. No more burnt up equipment, frame and paint from flames besides clean and silent heating. Insulation is a great help in fast heating times. JMO's on my next electric system the last electric brewery worked great but with manual switching a PITA.

conpewter said:

I use 5500 watt elements, I only run one at at time since I'm on a 30 amp breaker. I think the draw for one is around 22 amps, I'd have to go look at my calculations. I have the 5500 W element in both the boil kettle and HLT, I didn't see a reason to go smaller in one or the other. They are ULWD elements so that it wont' scorch the wort.

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So your system runs on a single pole 30 amp breaker? mmmmmmm

Did you do any calculations on the pumps and heating elements running at same time? Just to have a max. load?

How many gallons are you heating and how fast/slow? Pictures? Anybody?

Bueller? Bueller? Bueller?

I have numerous threads and photos of my E-HERMS on here.

I like it, it is just easy to control temps and there is no gas to run out of.

Actually, I have more $$ than actual brewing skill, so it made sense to engineer myself out of it.

Simphoto02 said:

So your system runs on a single pole 30 amp breaker? mmmmmmm

Did you do any calculations on the pumps and heating elements running at same time? Just to have a max. load?

How many gallons are you heating and how fast/slow? Pictures? Anybody?

Bueller? Bueller? Bueller?

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Double pole 30 amp breaker. That goes to a dryer outlet (4 prong) which the brewery plugs in to. I use a 30 amp GFCI protected cord to go from there to the rig, there is a control panel there that I use to control whichever element I'm using.

I plug the pump into a regular wall socket, though I could have used the same power using the neutral and one of the hots.

I heat 10 gallons or more at a time in the HLT. I don't remember the ramp up time, I'm always crushing my grain and the HLT is to temp when I get done with that. My first runnings are always to a boil before I get my 2nd runnings in the keg, so it heats plenty quick for me.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f51/cold-dead-hands-electric-brew-rig-action-118232/

I've got a few things I'd like to add (tippy dump for easier cleaning the boil kettle) but it works well.

I could add another breaker etc. to run both elements but my home only has 100 amp service, I don't want to pull nearly 50 amps for the brewstand alone

I wonder what is too much automation for a gas fired setup?, the web cam idea has possibilities.

We put in an electric HLT and used Brewmation to supply the parts.
works great
Home brewery electric conversion kits
much better than gas

Electric! Shortly I will have an hlt with two 2000 watt 120v heaters, and a bk with a 5500w ripple stick. I am using a 50amp gfi breaker for the whole thing. Cost for brewing energy? About a dollar a batch.

Yah, operating costs are low for electric rigs. I can run a 60 minute mash, 20 minute mash out and a 100 minute boil, for $1.13.

And you can easily brew indoors. Which is nice. Electric is also easier to add automation to. If u add automation to a natural gas burner with a solenoid driven needle valve, you have to worry about the the fuel air mix getting out of whack.

The caveat with electric is having enough current to handle the job. If you have anything less than 150 amp service, electric may not be an option. I only have 125 amp service, so Natural Gas is a real option. I don't think there is anything bad about Natural Gas or Electric. There are advantages and disadvantages to both. It all depends on what resources you have available. If one has neither, there is always propane.

I only have 60 amp service to my house, so I use natural gas for everything. I need to look over my bills but I'm fairly certain each brew session is around $1.75 in natty gas during the summer, and maybe $2.25 during the winter.

It does surprise me to see so many out there with electric setups, I thought 100A was fairly standard, which would leave your system fairly stressed if a brewery and say an E-stove/E-dryer were running at the same time. Or maybe I've just gotten used to my 1949 vintage 60 amp service lol...

leboeuf said:

I only have 60 amp service to my house, so I use natural gas for everything. I need to look over my bills but I'm fairly certain each brew session is around $1.75 in natty gas during the summer, and maybe $2.25 during the winter.

It does surprise me to see so many out there with electric setups, I thought 100A was fairly standard, which would leave your system fairly stressed if a brewery and say an E-stove/E-dryer were running at the same time. Or maybe I've just gotten used to my 1949 vintage 60 amp service lol...

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Our whole neighborhood is standardized at 200A

The Pol said:

Our whole neighborhood is standardized at 200A

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Now I'm just jealous...

Before I built here, I had a circa 1960s home. Now, I never electric brewed there, but I am certain that I could not have. All of these homes are two years old, so they are all 200A, which is nice.

I just priced Blue Rino at the local Hardware store;
Blue Rino exchange for a 15# bottle (was 20# until the added fill limit float)
goes for $23.99 and this is 3.5 gallon not the old 20# 5 gallons.
Exchange with old style valve with "Blue Rino's valve and filled bottle $39.99.
Purchase a full Blue Rino bottle without an exchange $59.99.
At their BR exchange rate propane goes for $6.85 a gallon.
I'll stay with electric heating even with NG 5' away. A 200 amp
service is the bare minimum I can operate at with the house demand
plus double electric ovens not counting the Tig that can draw 131 amps alone when I put my foot into the heat control.

You Tig weld often while you brew?

The Pol said:

You Tig weld often while you brew?

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Isn't this normal procedure?

arturo7 said:

Isn't this normal procedure?

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HERMS, RIMS, STEAM and Tig

Is anyone brewing all electric with less than 200A service? I have 100A main and have been contemplating upgrading service, maybe it'll be sooner than later. Besides Conpewter.

It shouldnt be a problem as long as you have room left in your panel. If your panel is full then you should probably upgrade. Though you could start adding mini breakers to free up some space.

An upgrade to a 200A panel is one of the top things on my AG checklist. I'm lucky to have a cousin who is an electrician. He also likes beer.

since we're on the subject, is the only difference between 100 and 200 amp service the panel? buddy of mine with 100 amp service has enough spots open for both a 240 and 120 breaker, and wants to go electric. i'm not sure about the stove, but the central air and dryer both draw quite a bit of current.

thanks for any help.

p.d.

Pickles, I've got a setup that uses 2 3500 elements w/ 100 amp service on the house.

I had an electrician place a 2nd 70 amp box in the garage a while back and the electrician assured me that since I had a gas furnance, gas stove, and not much else on electric - that the 70 amp was not unrealistic.

I've since got my pid controller set up and heat up 50 gallons of water in a ss 55 gal drum, usually only running the 1 3500 until the 50 gallons gets up to the set temp.

I am then ready to mash in 1st thing, and after doughing in, I reset the pid to 185 for the sparge. If doing a step infusion, I flip both elements on.

I can heat up a 20 gal batch in 2 degrees a minute with both on. Each has its own gfi 20 amp breaker in the box.

Cheers,

KY Dan
LAGERS/FOSSILS

pickles said:

Is anyone brewing all electric with less than 200A service? I have 100A main and have been contemplating upgrading service, maybe it'll be sooner than later. Besides Conpewter.

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I have a 100A service...I guess I should upgrade to 200 if I want to go electric ?

paledragon said:

since we're on the subject, is the only difference between 100 and 200 amp service the panel? buddy of mine with 100 amp service has enough spots open for both a 240 and 120 breaker, and wants to go electric. i'm not sure about the stove, but the central air and dryer both draw quite a bit of current.

thanks for any help.

p.d.

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the way I understand it is that the real issue is the drop from the electric pole. If its only sized for 100A it does no good to install a 200A panel. If a certified electrician and your elec co. deem your drop to be suffeciant to handle 200A, the you car install a larger panel offering more power to use. However, placing subpanels ( which i have done in the garage and for a hot tub) only offer what your panel can supply. I installed a 50A subpanel in my garage to power a few tools, lights and a mig welder, knowing that for now i may be limited as to what i can "power" in the rest of the house if working in the garage. When I upgrade to a new service I'll be golden! Sorry for the long response.

pickles said:

Is anyone brewing all electric with less than 200A service? I have 100A main and have been contemplating upgrading service, maybe it'll be sooner than later. Besides Conpewter.

Click to expand...

I have 200 amp service, and routinely use 2, 2000w 120v elements. Just last night I brewed a batch of my "local ale". While bringing my wort to a boil I got an emergency call, and had to leave the house for an hour. I decided to cut my power to the kettle to 2000w while I was out of the brewery. Upon my return i found my uninsulated kettle w/ approx 10 gallons bubbling away at a nice low boil.

Point of the story, don't assume you need mega power to utilize electric. w/ enough time, heating in coolers for sparge water, or possibly insulating the kettle, 2 circuits a 20 amps 120v will supply a lot of heat. Sure, more is better and faster, but less will suffice if you are patient.

Mike

Paledragon,
The limit of amperes to your house has to do with your neighborhood's power grid and the power company owned meter/etc.

It kinda stinks if you want to upgrade, cause it's technically the power company's equip, but for some reason, even if your meter is 60 years old and provides only 60 amp service (like mine), you have to fork over the 3-4grand for the service upgrade...

First off it all depends on where you live.

I have gotten a service upgrade in Macon Ga a while back for 800.00.

IF you are handy and not afraid of working with electrical then it is not impossible to do MOST of the work yourself. Here locally I can get a "Home Owners Permit for electrical work" I did this when I built my garage and ran the power myself from the service panel in the house basement across the house and through the foundation and buried 24 inches to the garage and place a 100 amp panel in the garage.

Not difficult work if you take your time and know what you are doing.

Now a total service upgrade is a bit different but not much. First MOST utility companies will be happy to sell you more power IF they have it to sell at the pole that services your house. I got a permit, called the utility company. had them pull the meter. I then had them drop me TEMPORARY service outside. once that was hooked up I was able to run the necessary tools and beer fridge. Once the house service panel was "Dead" i began ripping out the Service or breaker panel. At the same time I was removing the meter base, mast and weatherhead from the outside. Replaced with a 200 amp meter base, ran new service cable to the new 200 amp breaker panel and proceeded to reconnect the circuits, making new ones and cleaning up old wire as needed. called and got an inspection, (PASSED) then utility reconnected to the pole and presto I was back in service.

Not a big deal.

Only question I have is How bad does the grains stink up the house if you cook em in your house on all electric?

leboeuf said:

Paledragon,
The limit of amperes to your house has to do with your neighborhood's power grid and the power company owned meter/etc.

It kinda stinks if you want to upgrade, cause it's technically the power company's equip, but for some reason, even if your meter is 60 years old and provides only 60 amp service (like mine), you have to fork over the 3-4grand for the service upgrade...

Click to expand...

As mentioned I do run with 100 Amp service. My dryer, furnace, water heater and stove are all natural gas so there is no large power draw there. The only big draw I can think of while I'd be brewing would be the air conditioner and the two refrigerators. I could cut the power to the AC while brewing, but I haven't needed to do that.

It would be nice to have 200 amp service, but I think it is very doable on 100 amp service, I wouldn't try it on 60 amp service for sure.

BrewBeemer said:

I just priced Blue Rino at the local Hardware store;
Blue Rino exchange for a 15# bottle (was 20# until the added fill limit float)
goes for $23.99 and this is 3.5 gallon not the old 20# 5 gallons.
Exchange with old style valve with "Blue Rino's valve and filled bottle $39.99.
Purchase a full Blue Rino bottle without an exchange $59.99.
At their BR exchange rate propane goes for $6.85 a gallon.
I'll stay with electric heating even with NG 5' away. A 200 amp
service is the bare minimum I can operate at with the house demand
plus double electric ovens not counting the Tig that can draw 131 amps alone when I put my foot into the heat control.

Click to expand...

Just a PSA, if you have a ACE hardware near your house, most offer propapane refills for around $17, and you get the full 20#-5gallons.

It's the main reason my in-construction rig will be Hybrid, gas for the BK and a E-HLT.

I'm going to be using a 100A panel as well, and running off a 50A gfi breaker. Most of the time i will be running less than 25A per phase (leg).

If you have concerns about how many amps you currently draw, run around teh house and look at the information panels on your larger pieces of equipment.

My fridge is like 8 amps.
Window Ac unit is 5 amps
Gas stove = 0
gas hot water heater = 0
Kegerator = 5 amps
Dryer.... 30A? (well my gf isnt doing laundry that day)