Yeast Autolysis Krausen flavor/smell?

Edit: I overanalyzed, high temps caused off flavors

Let me start by saying I'm pretty new to brewing, I've done 4 batches of beer and 2 apfelwein. I have run into an issue with my last couple batches of beer. I was making BierMuncher's Centennial Blonde and I left it in the Primary Fermenter for about 2 weeks, maybe 2.5. When I opened it to bottle, I went to smell it and it was a horrible ripe smell, like somebody stabbed me in the nose. I also noticed some little chunks of something floating which I can only guess to be dried Krausen. After reading many a post on here I decided to RDWHAHB and bottle it anyway. It's been a few weeks since then and the smell/flavor is still off, I can't tell if its moldy or something else but I do not think its drinkable.

I then did another batch of the same recipe and last night bottled it. When I opened it after 1.5 weeks in the Primary it had a similar smell, but far less than the first one. Once I racked to the bottling bucket the smell was not noticeable, unlike the first, so I think I might be alright this time. The same dried krausen was apparent in the second as well.

My latest theory (which hopefully you can comment on) is that the dried Krausen had sat for too long without any food/oxygen on the upper sides of the bucket and had Autolyzed causing a horrible smell. Then after sitting for a week or so with the beer, the first batch adopted the awful smell/flavor. Another factor that was different from my first two batches (which went fine) was that I purposefully did not open the Primary during fermentation since I wanted to decrease my chances of infection, creating an environment with no oxygen. Is it possible that opening the lid was a good thing for my first couple batches since it let oxygen in which may have kept the krausen remnants alive longer?

Regardless, what I'm taking away from this is that I should use my secondary to get the beer away from the dried krausen but I would love to hear if this has happened to any of you and if there are any steps I can take to avoid in the future. I will also add pictures of the first bucket tonight.

Thanks,
Dan

Autolosis is a bogeyman to the home brewer, you are self diagnosing green beer based on some eronneous information you have errantly received. (It happens all the time.)

Most of us tend to go with what Palmer has to say, and what seems to be not noticed in the book.

Here's what Palmer has to say in How To Brew.

As a final note on this subject, I should mention that by brewing with healthy yeast in a well-prepared wort, many experienced brewers, myself included, have been able to leave a beer in the primary fermenter for several months without any evidence of autolysis.

Click to expand...

Quite a few of us leave our beers in primary for up to a month. Which improves the beers.

The yeast have eaten most all of the easily fermentable sugars and now start to turn their attention elsewhere. The yeast start to work on the heavier sugars like maltotriose. Also, the yeast clean up some of the byproducts they produced during the fast-paced primary phase.

Click to expand...

Leaving an ale beer in the primary fermentor for a total of 2-3 weeks (instead of just the one week most canned kits recommend), will provide time for the conditioning reactions and improve the beer. This extra time will also let more sediment settle out before bottling, resulting in a clearer beer and easier pouring. And, three weeks in the primary fermentor is usually not enough time for off-flavors to occur.

Click to expand...

Your beer opened at under 3 weeks was simply green....bet you if you leave them alone in the bottles for several more weeks it will taste fine.

Read this... http://blogs.homebrewtalk.com/Revvy/Of_Patience_and_Bottle_Conditioning/

And read this about n00b self diagnosing...

http://blogs.homebrewtalk.com/Revvy/Think_evaluation_before_action/

And this is an Extreem example of patience in brewing and bottle conditioning. https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f39/ne...virtue-time-heals-all-things-even-beer-73254/


Give the bottles a few more weeks. We all have krauzen gunk sitting on the sides of the fermenter and don't get "autolysis."

If you had seen taht boogy man...you'd think an 800# Gorilla took a big steaming Sh*t in your fermentor. You'd not even be asking about it...you'd have already puked in the bucket.

Well it's reassuring that neither of you have heard of this issue before. However...it still smells really weird and I don't mean like green apples, I spit out each mouthful I tasted (partly because I thought it might be moldy but it doesnt taste good).

I'm glad I bottled them anyway, so I guess I'll keep trying them every week or so and update later.

Last weekend I actually tried this one wheat beer, a "Franziskaner Hefe-Weiss", that had a faint similar taste of what my batch was like. If anyone is familiar with this brew and knows what causes that distinct flavor I'd be very interested in that information.

Thanks for the replies

That nose stabbing sensation is what happens when you inhale large quantity of CO2. Totally normal.

cushdan said:

Well it's reassuring that neither of you have heard of this issue before. However...it still smells really weird and I don't mean like green apples, I spit out each mouthful I tasted (partly because I thought it might be moldy but it doesnt taste good).

I'm glad I bottled them anyway, so I guess I'll keep trying them every week or so and update later.

Last weekend I actually tried this one wheat beer, a "Franziskaner Hefe-Weiss", that had a faint similar taste of what my batch was like. If anyone is familiar with this brew and knows what causes that distinct flavor I'd be very interested in that information.

Thanks for the replies

Click to expand...

Green beer doesn't meen green apples...it means a young beer with off flavors, like you are experiencing...Autolysis would smell like 800 pound gorilla poop from an ape whose diet consists rotting/fermenting dirty baby diapers, on a hot summer day....like BK said you wouldn't forget it...But it honestly takes months on a yeastcake to happen..

Just walk away from the bottles for a few weeks, and come back and re-evaluate them...

And I agree with bobby's co2 burn assesment as well.

Bobby_M said:

That nose stabbing sensation is what happens when you inhale large quantity of CO2. Totally normal.

Click to expand...

Yep. Just got that checking the temp in my fermenting chest!

Yeah the burning is definately CO2. Ive even heard of people passing out after getting a big whiff from their chest freezers. And dont worry about 3wks in the primary I routinely leave mine for at least a month and my beer tastes much cleaner than before.:rockin:

You wanna know what autolysis is like? Dump the yeast cake into a malt bucket, then leave it behind the furnace (or outside in the hot sun) for a few weeks. Then sit in a refrigerator box with the bucket. Make sure the box is outside!! Exhale as much as you can, then open the lid and inhale deeply through your nose.

When done vomiting all over the insides of the box, remove soiled clothes and leave them there, and set fire to the box. Fire is the only way to purge the stench.

MAN! You guys need to just say how bad it stinks and stop beating around the bush...

The weirdest thing is actually having beer that smells that bad just after the active ferment, procrastinating about dumping it, then finding a very pleasant finished product.

Bobby_M said:

The weirdest thing is actually having beer that smells that bad just after the active ferment, procrastinating about dumping it, then finding a very pleasant finished product.

Click to expand...

Fermentation can be some nasty looking and smelling stuff and still be normal.


That's the magic of fermentation and conditioning. The yeasties are amazing and cleaning up after themselves in most cases.

Well I'm glad I read enough posts before this happened to know enough not to dump it and continue with my favorite task of bottling.

EvilTOJ, I'll make sure to do that experiment and videotape it, search YouTube for "yeast vomit crying bucket" in about a month.

If it still tastes bad in a month or two I'll send you each a bottle!

By the way, the vomit thing is not an exageration for effect. I had a PET bottle of WLP001 slurry in the back of my ingredients fridge that I forgot about for 6 months. It made itself known by swelling up enough to topple over knocking other stuff over in the process. I put some heavy gloves and safety goggles on and moved it over a bucket to release the pressure. That 16oz bottle gushed out about 2 gallons of foamy hell on earth into the bucket. One whiff and I added another quart to the bucket.

Bobby_M said:

By the way, the vomit thing is not an exageration for effect. I had a PET bottle of WLP001 slurry in the back of my ingredients fridge that I forgot about for 6 months. It made itself known by swelling up enough to topple over knocking other stuff over in the process. I put some heavy gloves and safety goggles on and moved it over a bucket to release the pressure. That 16oz bottle gushed out about 2 gallons of foamy hell on earth into the bucket. One whiff and I added another quart to the bucket.

Click to expand...

Now that's just funny, I don't care who you are!

Hi! I had a similar issue with a cider's batch, done with a champagne strain of yeast.
First time I tried to drink it, I felt a truly yeasty taste, some weeks later the cider was "bread-like" tasting, now, almost four month later, is good, with apple flavour, good taste and good carbonation.
Something similar, but faster, happened to me with a lager beer!
Cider, and obviously beer, are living product, there are still yeast cells inside, and naturally evolves.

I've thrown out some nasty yeast from my fridge but never experienced autolysis. I did create a nasty trash can by throwing a plastic trash bag of spent mash into my trash can to ferment at about 95 F. Not pleasant.


Why would'nt you get autolysis in a bottle conditioned beer that sat around for a long time?

Regards,
Big Al

You could, theoretically, eventually get autolysis in bottled beer that has been sitting. However, it's unlikely because by that point in a beer's life the quantity of yeast present is very, very low.

If you're getting nasty chunkies in your bottled beer I would suggest putting a bottling net over your siphon. Any contribution from that stuff would mellow out with time, but you're better off minimizing the introduction of that nastyness in the first place.

Just thought I'd update this with some resolution so that it would be more helpful to anyone searching in the future.

I was able to drop off a bottle of the beer at my LHBS and the manager said that he didn't taste anything that was too concerning. After giving him all the details (ingredients and whatnot) he was leaning toward just off flavors from higher temperature fermentation. I think that maybe since I reused some yeast and had a rather vigorous fermentation that the temperature reading I was getting on the outside of the bucket was a lot lower than inside and the temps got higher than intended. The flavor was somewhat clove-like (which I think is why some of the german wheat beers reminded me of it).

Thanks for your replies, now I just need to finish my mini fridge/fermenting chamber...

newkarian said:

Yeah the burning is definately CO2. Ive even heard of people passing out after getting a big whiff from their chest freezers. And dont worry about 3wks in the primary I routinely leave mine for at least a month and my beer tastes much cleaner than before.:rockin:

Click to expand...

I guess it was a girly man or a SWMBO

I am a n00b.


My question is, excluding the obvious possible contamination, what are the downsides to secondary?

cushdan said:

I'm glad I bottled them anyway, so I guess I'll keep trying them every week or so and update later.

Click to expand...

cushdan How did this mature please?

Here's my take: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f39/wh...olysis-yeast-death-rupture-398024/index6.html