Good beer is good beer, no matter the method.
evrose said:Good beer is good beer, no matter the method.
Segregation of methods opens the door to all sorts of nuances that would make competitions a mess. What about partial mashes? BIAB? Partial mash BIAB?
Judge based on output, not method of getting there.
Having said that, I have zero interest in ever entering a contest... so my opinion counts for slightly less than nothing.
I don't see how these can possibly compare. The playing field seems uneven.
Now that's a good point. Should we differentiate then. Should "brew kits" entries be prohibited?
Any beer can win on any given day. I believe that most BOS winners do "get lucky", how they brewed really does not come into play.Well made points. Doesn't that still leave open the possibility of 'getting lucky' against more advanced & capable brewers with minimal effort, comprehention & knowledge?
I am an all grain home brewer and a pro brewer. I was unaware that I needed defending...Also, im curious why nobodys standing up for the AG folks? Are their numbers dwindling due to the additional effort required?
If the recipe is supplied I would look it over but I WILL have my style guidelines in front of me. This is a beer comp not a beer recipe comp so I would only look at it with suggestions/comments to make the beer recipe (and the beer) more to style.Another quick question. Does a BJCP Judge review the individual submissions submitted recipe when judging or only the style guideline?
Not that Zamial has poor taste- not at all!!!! But a well made beer is a well made beer. You can't taste "extract" in a well made PM or extract beer.
So we are to advocate renaming brew kits and entering them in a contest? I'd like to determine, beyond the final product being beer, how the various methods can possibly compare.
All Grain - you learn and study a great many details, develop recipes based upon BJCP style guidelines in hopes of producing, what you hope to be, a contest worthy homebrew.
The other, you open a box of preselected ingredients prepare the product as per instructions and submit it and quite probably be judged against someone else doing the same thing. Where is the recipe development & preparation.
I don't see how these can possibly compare. The playing field seems uneven.
Zamial, let me repose the question. Why are the extract brewers & their supporters so 'loud' on this topic & the AG people so quite. It's nothing personal, just an observation.
let me repose the question. Why are the extract brewers & their supporters so 'loud' on this topic & the AG people so quite. It's nothing personal, just an observation.
Let me pose this overly simplistic query. Supposing there is no difference in the finished product, why do we even bother with the more complicated method to arrive at the same end? Seems to me that pretty much sums it up.
Let me pose this overly simplistic query. Supposing there is no difference in the finished product, why do we even bother with the more complicated method to arrive at the same end? Seems to me that pretty much sums it up.
For the same reason we go fishing to catch fish, and grow a garden to get vegetables. We enjoy it.
For the same reason we go fishing to catch fish, and grow a garden to get vegetables. We enjoy it.
Let me pose this overly simplistic query. Supposing there is no difference in the finished product, why do we even bother with the more complicated method to arrive at the same end? Seems to me that pretty much sums it up.
For the same reason we go fishing to catch fish, and grow a garden to get vegetables. We enjoy it.
Let me pose this overly simplistic query. Supposing there is no difference in the finished product, why do we even bother with the more complicated method to arrive at the same end? Seems to me that pretty much sums it up.
I guess I can understand how you can come to that conclusion. But I"m a certified BJCP judge. I've had wonderful extract beers win/place in competition- and of course we didn't know they were extract beers as the judges have no way of knowing that. I've had some really awful AG beers.
It's not like an extract batch (or partial mash) is a can of spaghettio's entered in an Italian recipe contest. There is much more to it than that!
Think of it this way- the only thing an extract brewer is doing is using the extract instead of two-row. That's it. Sure, he/she skips the mashing process, but temperature control, fresh ingredients, yeast pitching rate, water quality, etc are the most important part anyway.
I sort of think of extract brewing (assuming some specialty grains) as making spaghetti sauce out of canned tomatoes and sauce, but adding spices and other ingredients to make the sauce. I've had some of the best spaghetti sauces made this way.
For AG, the process would be the same, except a guy starts with a bushel of tomatoes. I"ve done this, by the way! It could be much better, but much more could go wrong and it could be worse. I've made great sauce this way, but it takes more equipment (to peel the tomatoes and things) and more time.
The real contest, then, is the flavor. I mean, when I go to a restaurant I don't really care if the spaghetti sauce was made the old fashioned (canned) way if you're my grandma, or from a bushel of tomatoes. I care about the taste.
The same is true of brewing. I"ve had bad beers of all sorts over the years- even in commercial brewpubs. I'd rather have a great beer, no matter how the brewer got there, than all of those bad ones.
It really takes great skill to make a kick-ass extract brew, so I'd give kudos to that brewer.
The first HBT competition we had, a partial mash beer won the BOS (or was it the second BOS?). Anyway, he won kegging gear, beating out over 300 other entries. I'd say the pool of beers we submitted (me included) were pretty darn good, so if he beat my AG beer, then that's awesome.
Personally i wouldnt think any judge could differentiate between methods by merely tasting. That would be difficult indeed.
Zamial, let me repose the question. Why are the extract brewers & their supporters so 'loud' on this topic & the AG people so quite. It's nothing personal, just an observation.
This thread was started to explore thoughts on brewing methods being lumped together for judging. As indicated by the contributing judges, the recipe isn't examined as part of the judging process. That is interesting. The judges are only interested in final product & its conformity to style guidelines & not method of arrival at that point.
Very interesting.
Now that's a good point. Should we differentiate then. Should "brew kits" entries be prohibited?
krackin said:Let me pose this overly simplistic query. Supposing there is no difference in the finished product, why do we even bother with the more complicated method to arrive at the same end? Seems to me that pretty much sums it up.
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