How do folks reduce their brewing time

First, here is my set-up:

Single burner turkey fryer, 15 Gal HLT, big-arse cooler MT w/ manifold and sparge arm, 20 gal brew pot. I brew 10-15 gal batches and usually run through my CFC into the conical fermenter, aerate and pitch (that part seems to be quite efficient).

By general process is to condition malt the night before, crush while the HLT is warming up before doughing in. Then I have 1 or 2 step rest mash and a fly sparge.

Generally, start to finish, including clean-up, I am at about 5-6 hours start to finish.

Biggest issues for me seem to be temp control of the burner and HLT and hitting my mash temps without having to tweak up/down. So, with that being said, I am curious to know how others do in terms of time and any suggestions for shortening the brew day. Also, I have a pump en route and will be using for the first time once I get it wired and plumbed, so any suggestions for how to use the pump to help speed up the process will also be helpful!


PS. Yes, I know batch sparging is quicker, so move on if that's all ya got. I'm not trying to start another fly vs batch sparge debate.

Well, I only do 5 gallon batches usually, and they are a bit faster. Why? Well, it takes less time to bring 7 gallons of wort to a boil (my preboil volume) and less time to sparge a 5 gallon batch. It's also faster to chill 5 gallons! If you're doing 15 gallon batches, 6 hours is a very quick time, in my opinion!

YooperBrew said:

Well, I only do 5 gallon batches usually, and they are a bit faster. Why? Well, it takes less time to bring 7 gallons of wort to a boil (my preboil volume) and less time to sparge a 5 gallon batch. If you're doing 15 gallon batches, 6 hours is a very quick time, in my opinion!

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The sparging time is definitely one big time sink, since it is usually around 90 min for my batch sizes. With the huge burner I have it manages to move temps quite quickly, so it is not bad for even 17 gallons of wort going from 150 degrees post-sparge to boil.

Now, if I can convince my wife to do the clean-up that would really knock some time off!

I agree with Yoop. 5-6 hours for a 15G batch is awesome. I do 5.5 G and 11G batches in ~6 hours.

IrregularPulse said:

I agree with Yoop. 5-6 hours for a 15G batch is awesome. I do 5.5 G and 11G batches in ~6 hours.

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OK, I'll just shut-up then. With a toddler running around I wish I could find a way to cut an hour out, but aside from a truly automated system, not sure what I could do to make it more hands off, thus the question.

Simple... Brew with extracts!

Kidding. I also brew 5 gallon all grain batches in the summer (no way in hell I'm draging my arse outside in a Michigan winter to brew, sorry. I brew a lot in the summer and squirrel it away). It's about 5 hours from start to finish.

I've been getting my brews done lately in under 4 hours, but that is with 5 gallons and batch sparging. If I was doing fly sparging and making 10 or 15 gallon batches, I don't think I could go much faster than you are already going.

BTW, I am usually around 6 hrs since I will get a little distracted by normal life stuff (you know, toddlers walking into tables with their foreheads, SWMBO asking for help with stuff, etc)... Managed a 5 hr brew ONCE and was like "OK, I've got it down now"... every brew since has been ~6 hrs, LOL!

We finished a 10 gallon batch in just over 5 hours on Sat. We were quite amazed and didn't know what to do with ourselves afterward.

arturo7 said:

We finished a 10 gallon batch in just over 5 hours on Sat. We were quite amazed and didn't know what to do with ourselves afterward.

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LOL.

On my last batch (last monday), I finished the brewing in about 3 hours and then I sat there scratching my head trying to figure out if I missed something because it seemed WAY to goddamn fast.

Walker said:

LOL.

On my last batch (last monday), I finished the brewing in about 3 hours and then I sat there scratching my head trying to figure out if I missed something because it seemed WAY to goddamn fast.

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That's because you were WAY more sober than usual by the end.

Randar said:

That's because you were WAY more sober than usual by the end.

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Actually, I was f*cking trashed... more than usual. I think I knocked back 6 pints or so during that 3 hours, and I usually just have 2 or 3 when I brew.

My wife laughed at me at the end of the night because I bobbled into the house, fell onto the couch and mumbled something about "one too many beers..."

Walker said:

Actually, I was f*cking trashed... more than usual. I think I knocked back 6 pints or so during that 3 hours, and I usually just have 2 or 3 when I brew.

My wife laughed at me at the end of the night because I bobbled into the house, fell onto the couch and mumbled something about "one too many beers..."

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HAHA! It was the beer-time continuum catching up to you then! 3 hours is solid for a brew day.

I brewed 25 gallons this weekend and my garbage can is going to REEK by garbage day (Thursday). Friday's spent grains were already ripe when I threw yesterday's in with them.

Randar said:

OK, I'll just shut-up then. With a toddler running around I wish I could find a way to cut an hour out, but aside from a truly automated system, not sure what I could do to make it more hands off, thus the question.

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You can hire my experienced brewing services for a few pints on brewday

Practice, practice, practice

i brew about 12g at a time. i spend 5 to 5.5 hours, and i batch-sparge, usually

What about splitting the process over two days? Maybe prep / mash on day one, then boil & cool / pitch the next?

It would feel like time saving... AND you get to drink yourself silly two days in a row! Hoo-ha!

spriolo said:

What about splitting the process over two days? Maybe prep / mash on day one, then boil & cool / pitch the next?

It would feel like time saving... AND you get to drink yourself silly two days in a row! Hoo-ha!

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This has been discussed before and it generally takes considerably longer in total to brew this way because you lose the ability to overlap some steps (heating wort to a boil while still sparging, for example).

Plus, there's the problem of what to do with the hot unboiled wort on day 1.

Chill it and refrigerate? (one more cooling step in the process and one more large heating step the next day to get going.)

Cover and let sit at room temp? (good chance of it souring because of the bacteria present in the grain having all night to chill out in that sweet liquid).

Walker said:

This has been discussed before and it generally takes considerably longer in total to brew this way because you lose the ability to overlap some steps (heating wort to a boil while still sparging, for example).

Plus, there's the problem of what to do with the hot unboiled wort on day 1.

Chill it and refrigerate? (one more cooling step in the process and one more large heating step the next day to get going.)

Cover and let sit at room temp? (good chance of it souring because of the bacteria present in the grain having all night to chill out in that sweet liquid).

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+1. Remember that grain is loaded with bacteria, including lactobacillus (the souring like in milk). Bringing it to a boil right away kills those bugs. And already starting with 155 degree wort from the MLT means less time to bring it to a boil than if you cool it first.

If I'm in a hurry (dinner plans, for example), I'll batch sparge. I haven't noticed any loss of efficiency, but it only saves maybe 1/2 hour.

The biggest time saver in my opinion is doing bigger batches. I mean, it takes me 4.5 hours to do a 5 gallon batch. It takes 5 hours to do a 10 gallon batch. So, I get two weeks worth of beer for a half an hour, if I look at it that way. Doing 15 gallons in 6 hours is really great, when you think about it!

Your biggest time saver is going to be cutting your mash time down. Cut your mash time to 15-20 minutes and then start recirculating. DO NOT RAISE THE TEMP FOR A MASHOUT! Not only is it unnecessary, but it'll stop the enzyme activity that you need. By the time that you finish recirculating, you'll have a long mash (I regularly only mash for 20 minutes then drain the cooler while batch sparging).

twoodward took my comment, a lot of breweries don't mash for an hour, including red hook and rogue. for them lost time is wasted money, and the beer still tastes great.

... full automation.

And minimizing trinkets (especially threaded) on the cold side to clean. (For me this means making everything dual use if I can, so I HAVE to clean them often....I got no dearth of trinkets for sure)

Another thing is instead of trying to go faster, why not find ways to go slower? Example, you know that the mash has to sit for 60 minutes, why not go deal with some non-brewing stuff then come back.

I think the biggest bottleneck in my process in 5 gallon batches is heating the water. It takes forever... Before I start moving up to 10-12 gallon batches, I want to build a couple electronic heatsticks to supplement the propane burner. Also I wanna look at heat loss. If I completely insulate the keggle except for the bottom, I will not only use less energy, but probably achieve faster boils as well. I will do some before and after timings on this.

Also make a list of all the things that I have to get done and find out if any can be done while waiting. IE.. it doesn't make sense to clean out ther fermenter holding up the process when I could have been doing that while waiting for a boil. It doesn't make sense to crush grains without first getting the heat on the water. etc..

grathan said:

It takes forever... Before I start moving up to 10-12 gallon batches, I want to build a couple electronic heatsticks to supplement the propane burner.

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I would do a full electric HLT with a LOVE controller if I were you. On my all electric, I don't even factor in time to heat the strike water. I just fill in place and flip the switch all with my morning cereal. It hangs out there til I'm ready for it with minimal power draw. My day starts with mash in, basically.

twoodward15 said:

Your biggest time saver is going to be cutting your mash time down. Cut your mash time to 15-20 minutes and then start recirculating. DO NOT RAISE THE TEMP FOR A MASHOUT! Not only is it unnecessary, but it'll stop the enzyme activity that you need. By the time that you finish recirculating, you'll have a long mash (I regularly only mash for 20 minutes then drain the cooler while batch sparging).

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Can you elaborate on this or know of a good link explaining the process? How long do you typically recirculate? Definitely looking for ways to put my pump to use. I would imagine recirculating without controlling the temp of the mash (as I mentioned I have a big cooler as my MT) is going to cause some temp loss in the tun. Looks like you are suggesting mashing and recirculating at normal mash temps. I would still raise temps to 167 or whatever to sparge, right?

I tell you what, i recently completed my RIMs toolbox and started doing no sparge batches on it. I do a full brew day anywhere from 5 to 10 gallons in less than 3.5 hours, and I can get a ton of other stuff done.

The only time I really have to be there is the beginning of the boil to watch for boil overs when adding hops and the transfer for cooling and cleanup. The mash takes care of itself and I have been getting decent efficiency (75-80% and will probably get better now that I have a grain mill)

Just something to think about... I dont think it would take to much more time going from 10 to 15 gallons with this method.

I overnight mash pretty much %100 of the time and i LOVE it. I put my strike water in at 11:30 the night before. Get my sparge water filted and on the stove. I then wake up at 6:00 am and turn the sparge water burner on. Then when I wake up for the day at about 7:00 my sparge water is ready and my mash is ready to be lautered. It works awesome. While I am waiting for my wort to boil, I clean the mash tun out and get the fermenters and racking equipment sanitized and ready.

If you haven't tried overnight mashing, it is a great technique. I get slightly increased efficiency and a super dense grain bed.

I also switched from double or triple batch sparging to single bath sparge, with no ill effects. Except on really big beers, then I double sparge.

wow, I frequently turn out 6 and 12 gallon batches in under 4 hours.

-put water on to heat, then measure out and mill your grains
-Mash only as long as it takes to bring your sparge water up to temperature. 15 to 20 minutes is sufficient for full conversion unless you're mashing at low temps and/or have a heavy adjunct load.
-I no-sparge: dump in the full quantity of sparge water into the tun prior to beginning run-off. This costs me about 10 efficiency points. Run off at full rate directly into the kettle, that's sitting over high heat as the run-off is taking place.
-use the chiller that offers the most surface area possible. I have 2x50' immersion chillers that I use in parallel, with whirlpooling, they can drop wort to pitchable temperatures in 10 to 15 minutes or less. Save the first 5 or 10 gallons of coolant for clean-up activities.
-clean-as-you-go: there's lots of waiting time during brewing - waiting for water to heat up, waiting for the boil, etc. Use this time to clean and sanitize the pieces that you will need next, or to clean and put away the pieces you're done with.
-mash-in-a-bag - I made a cloth bag to fit my mashtun. Line the mashtun with your filterbag, and then add grains and water. It makes cleanup a snap: lift out the bag, dump grains, clean the mashtun with the garden hose, and wash the bag with your laundry.
-put a lid on water while waiting for it to heat up. It makes a big difference.

prosper said:

-put water on to heat, then measure out and mill your grains
-use the chiller that offers the most surface area possible. I have 2x50' immersion chillers that I use in parallel, with whirlpooling, they can drop wort to pitchable temperatures in 10 to 15 minutes or less. Save the first 5 or 10 gallons of coolant for clean-up activities.
-clean-as-you-go: there's lots of waiting time during brewing - waiting for water to heat up, waiting for the boil, etc. Use this time to clean and sanitize the pieces that you will need next, or to clean and put away the pieces you're done with.
-put a lid on water while waiting for it to heat up. It makes a big difference.

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So I already do most of this. Start HLT heating and then mill grains (I do measure and condition the malt the night before). I sanitize everything while the HLT is heating, get everything laid out and hops weighed, etc. I have a big CFC and adjust wort flow to achieve desired pitch temp based on seasonal groundwater temp. This means I can siphon/cool pretty hands off and can start some clean-up. Boil Kettle, CFC, and MT take most cleaning time/effort for me right now. Everything else just gets a quick rinse. I keep the lid on the HLT and don't have much issue in getting the BK up to boil once I add the wort which is usually around 150 degrees or so.

prosper said:

-Mash only as long as it takes to bring your sparge water up to temperature. 15 to 20 minutes is sufficient for full conversion unless you're mashing at low temps and/or have a heavy adjunct load.
-I no-sparge: dump in the full quantity of sparge water into the tun prior to beginning run-off. This costs me about 10 efficiency points. Run off at full rate directly into the kettle, that's sitting over high heat as the run-off is taking place.
-mash-in-a-bag - I made a cloth bag to fit my mashtun. Line the mashtun with your filterbag, and then add grains and water. It makes cleanup a snap: lift out the bag, dump grains, clean the mashtun with the garden hose, and wash the bag with your laundry.

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These are some suggestions I'd not yet considered. This cloth bag is big enough for 12 gallon batches and wont explode when lifting the wet grains? That sounds pretty sturdy. Would def be interested in seeing a pic of that. I don't think my MT can hold a large grain bill and all that water for a 12-15 gallon batch, though, so I wouldn't be able to do a full sparge water addition.

Simple. Brew less.

GilaMinumBeer said:

Simple. Brew less.

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How dare you!

Randar said:

This cloth bag is big enough for 12 gallon batches and wont explode when lifting the wet grains? That sounds pretty sturdy. Would def be interested in seeing a pic of that. I don't think my MT can hold a large grain bill and all that water for a 12-15 gallon batch, though, so I wouldn't be able to do a full sparge water addition.

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It's the same bag I use when I'm doing a BIAB batch. It's been strong enough in the past to suspend over the kettle (from a ladder) to drain.

looks like this (not my pic):

GilaMinumBeer said:

Simple. Brew less.

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Heresy!

prosper said:

looks like this (not my pic):

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Boy, that looks familiar - wink, wink.

In all seriousness are you guys including clean up time??? I did my frist real riecirculating All Grain brew and it took me like 7 hours includign set up, milling grains, mash, boil, cooling fermetning and cleaning.

I set up two hot water urns on a timer the night before so they are hot (190deg) by the time I wake up to brew.

When I manage to find time to brew its 5-6 hours for 10 gallon batches and 4.5 - 5 hours for a 5 gallon batch. Add an hour or so if someone is watching me.

My time saving is to do something when something else is happening. Clean while wort boils. Clean while water heats up. Measure while you are waiting for anything to boil or heat.

Heat your wort while you run off if you can. Heat sparge water while you mash.

Wayne.

BargainFittings said:

When I manage to find time to brew its 5-6 hours for 10 gallon batches and 4.5 - 5 hours for a 5 gallon batch. Add an hour or so if someone is watching me.

My time saving is to do something when something else is happening. Clean while wort boils. Clean while water heats up. Measure while you are waiting for anything to boil or heat.

Heat your wort while you run off if you can. Heat sparge water while you mash.

Wayne.

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Thanks for the tips. PS, i place 3 orders the last 6 weeks through you guys and ordered several fittings for my all grain set up - very pleased. I like your stainless threaded to compression fitting. I used that to trasition to my copper sparge ring.

twoodward15 said:

Your biggest time saver is going to be cutting your mash time down. Cut your mash time to 15-20 minutes and then start recirculating. DO NOT RAISE THE TEMP FOR A MASHOUT! Not only is it unnecessary, but it'll stop the enzyme activity that you need. By the time that you finish recirculating, you'll have a long mash (I regularly only mash for 20 minutes then drain the cooler while batch sparging).

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mash for 20 minutes? what's your efficiency?

Brew time is MY time. I enjoy letting it stretch to 6 or 7 hours. I've done ten gallons in under 5, but my efficiency suffered due to a quick sparge (fly-style).