Tell me about Honey Malt and Melanoidin Malt

These are two that I haven't used yet, but sound very interesting. Now that I can do partial mashes, I can start using these. I have read little quick descriptions of them from various sources, but I wanted to get feed back from people who have actually used them in a recipe.

What kind of contributions did you get from each one?

How much should I use if I don't want it to dominate, but I still want some contribution to the overall flavor profile - particularly the honey?

I usually keep my malt bills simple, but I am thinking about making a Winter IPA with a nice complex malty base. Something like:

5.5 lb Extra Light DME
2 lb Maris Otter
0.5 lb Crystal 40L
0.25 lb Honey Malt
0.25 lb Melanoidin
Then a bunch of Cascade and Amarillo on top of it.

I also am thinking about using the Melanoidin in a Weizenbock and an Irish Red.

Both malts have enzymes. Melanoidin is more for color with some added body. Melanoidin is often used to simulate decoction mashing. Honey malt is more of a flavor contribution. It is unique malt that has a lot of sweetness with some nuttiness...some think of it as a turbo-dark-munich malt. You can use a little more of each than some other specialty malts but still shouldn't go much above 20%. I would typ use at least 1/2 lb for 5 gal. but you could easily use 3x or even 4x that for bigger brews.

EDIT: Another specialty malt that has enzymes is Aromatic malt. I've read somewhere that Melanoidin is Weyermann's version of Aromatic but I'm not sure I agree with that. I almost always have 2 of these 3 malts around (usually Honey malt and Aromatic).

I just made an american wheat with 1/2 lb honey malt and I wish I would've added more. I've read posts on here that some say honey malt can be overpowering. I have used it a few times now and disagree. If you want some of that residual honey sweetness, you could probably add more than 1/4 lb. Another frame of reference - the winning APA from the recent HBT comp (which also won 2nd BOS) has lots of honey malt.

Cant speak for melanoidin in an IPA, but I have used aromatic and it was nice.

Thanks for the help. I posted in a couple other forums too and, as far as the honey malt goes, everyone seems to be saying they wish they used a bit more.

I think I am going to kick the Honey malt up to 0.75 and the Melanoidin up to 0.5. If it ends up adding more sweetness than I anticipate, the IBUs are going to clock in around 80, so I think it should be good.

I recently made an American Blonde Ale that used .25lb or 3% of the grain bill, along with Vienna (19%). Now while I also had never used Vienna before, when I first pulled a pint of this what struck me most was the malt aroma. While I did not use any aroma hops, the aroma hit me like a dry-hopped beer.

In my experience, honey malt made for a really strong contribution to a green beer when I used .5 lbs (sweet nutty taste), but by the time the beer had sat for a month and bottle conditioned, its contribution was really minimal and in the background.