Buying water

I cannot use my water because it is nasty. I buy water for my all grain brewing by the 5 gallon jugs like the same kind you find on a water cooler. I know this water is RO and have just read that is bad for all grain. What water should I use, maybe bottled spring water?

There is a great write-up in BYO for a inline water filter. It's cheap and easy to build, I think Dude already made one. I just got the parts and should be building it soon. It brings down the cost of water to like 1 cent a gallon.

I'd try spring water. But if it is much more expensive, you may want to look into building your own water from the RO water. The only thing you need is a scale pecise enough to measure mg (check e-bay) and a collection of salts.

Kai

Could somebody post the linked to the BYO topic on building an inline water filter. I, as well, have been using purchased, natural spring water to brew with as my city water is quite chlorinated. I have been adding gypsum, chalk, and/or non-iodized salt as needed during the boil to complement any lack of minerals due to the water.
I am still curious as to the detrimental effects "pure" water may have had on my brewing, especially since I have just started partial grain brewing.

I could not find a way to get it on-line, but here is the next best I could do.

Parts needed:

* (1) 2"90 -degree elbow PVC (male and female ends see pic)
* (2) 2" x 1/2" bushing adapter pVC
* (1) 2"x3" coupling PVC
* (1) 1/2" male threadx 5/8" hose barb brass
*(1) 1/2" male thread x 1/2" hose barb brass
* (1) Culligan WHR-140 filter.

I am still waiting on the filter , was supposed to be here today. Dude said he had to glue it all together because it leaked big time before. So I went ahead and bought the glue. I found the filter at amazon.com for $13.95 before shipping. Hope that helps!

So what are you guys saying to do, filter my bad tasting water? Or filter the store bought water? I have a well but the water smells like ass. Is all natural spring water my best bet or filter the ass water..lol ?

I have been using bottled spring water so far. It gets a little pricey but so far so good. I am not sure about the well water though? Bottled spring water may be your best option.

Brew-boy said:

So what are you guys saying to do, filter my bad tasting water? Or filter the store bought water? I have a well but the water smells like ass. Is all natural spring water my best bet or filter the ass water..lol ?

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Smells like Ass...or rotten egg's? if it's eggs thats Hydrogen sulfide, and an activated charcoal filter would help with that. have you had your well tested to see what the water quality is or the mineral content is?

In my area there are water vending machines that sell water for 25¢ a gallon, at the grocery store.

Just my 2¢

Will an activated charcoal filter help remove the "city taste" from water. I am just worried about purchasing the wrong filter to remove the chlorine and other things they put in it. Is a RO the only one that will help?

flippindiscs said:

Will an activated charcoal filter help remove the "city taste" from water. I am just worried about purchasing the wrong filter to remove the chlorine and other things they put in it. Is a RO the only one that will help?

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Yes an activated charcoal aka activated carbon filter will remove most of the chlorine And all of the chlorine taste. Also the fluoride

It should also remove most bad tastes.

It also turns cheap vodka into premium vodka and whisky too for that matter

I'm always amazed how much difference it makes when you filter vodka through.

flippindiscs said:

Will an activated charcoal filter help remove the "city taste" from water. I am just worried about purchasing the wrong filter to remove the chlorine and other things they put in it. Is a RO the only one that will help?

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Activated charcoal will remove chlorine and most other chemicals added by a city water system. However in my experience it doesn't help much with sulphor, iron or other dissolved minerals found in some hard water. RO filters remove nearly everything which I'm reading is a bad thing for all grain brewing. If you city water tastes good out of a Brita pitcher then an activated charcoal filter is probably a good bet. If it really bad water then purchasing water is an option or you can install an RO filter and add salts back in to the water for the desired amounts.
I like that charcoal filter posted by Brewnurse. I think I may try that and bypass my softener for future AG brews.
Craig

I would not waste my money on a Reverse Osmosis water filter. If your water is so bad that a actived carbon filter and sediment filter won't handle it.

I'd get a distiller and add any mineral(s) you might need or want. Plus you could use a distiller for other purposes ;-)

I live in rural Iowa, I have several friends that live on farms and have wells, many of them have had problems with sulfur and iron smell and taste, the charcoal filters didn't help the only thing that did was a good RO system.

Do you know anyone that lives in town and has city water? you could get your own filter and get water from them. Our town water is pretty good but its loaded with chlorine, I filter it and add a 1/4 tsp of potassium metabysulfate per 5 gallons of water to remove the what the filter misses.

CBBaron said:

Activated charcoal will remove chlorine and most other chemicals added by a city water system. However in my experience it doesn't help much with sulphor, iron or other dissolved minerals found in some hard water. RO filters remove nearly everything which I'm reading is a bad thing for all grain brewing. If you city water tastes good out of a Brita pitcher then an activated charcoal filter is probably a good bet. If it really bad water then purchasing water is an option or you can install an RO filter and add salts back in to the water for the desired amounts.
I like that charcoal filter posted by Brewnurse. I think I may try that and bypass my softener for future AG brews.
Craig

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If you'd like a bit more info on that filter, it's in one of the recent issues of BYO.

Waldo said:

I the only thing that did was a good RO system.

.

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Obviously Waldo doesn't know anyone that distills their own water.

I also said a sediment filter and an activated carbon filter which is an excellent choice for a whole house treatment system. I would try that first as both of them are a darn site cheaper than any Reverse Osmosis unit that's worth a carp.

There's nothing wrong with a good Reverse Osmosis filter they do an excellent job

What I'm just saying is that a good Reverse Osmosis system is expensive and all it's good for is treating water there are many other uses for a distiller. And if it were my $ a distiller is what I'd buy.

I might also mention that I am not talking about some cheap POS filter you bolt on to you sink faucet or pour into a pitcher althought they do a good job if your water is pretty good to begin with.

Have you ever tried making beer from your own water? Just because it doesn't smell or taste good to drink as tap water doesn't necessarily mean it wouldn't make good beer. After all, historically one of the reasons beer was made in the first place was to make suspect water drinkable. Couldn't hurt to try a batch or two using it and see what happens. You never know-- maybe the minerals that are in your water and the ph of your water could just be exactly what you need to make kickass homebrew.

mmditter said:

Have you ever tried making beer from your own water? Just because it doesn't smell or taste good to drink as tap water doesn't necessarily mean it wouldn't make good beer. After all, historically one of the reasons beer was made in the first place was to make suspect water drinkable. Couldn't hurt to try a batch or two using it and see what happens. You never know-- maybe the minerals that are in your water and the ph of your water could just be exactly what you need to make kickass homebrew.

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Excellent Point!

aseelye said:

If you'd like a bit more info on that filter, it's in one of the recent issues of BYO.

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Yes it is. I think it was the last issue I don't think it's the most current issue however
I'll check and see when I get home and post the month if some else doesn't do it first.

Good point but I know my water is very hard before it goes through the water softener, I just might try it and see. I was going to take 10 gallons form work(City water) but rated as the best city water rated in the state of Michigan, and run through a filter and brew a pale ale with it and see.

flippindiscs said:

Will an activated charcoal filter help remove the "city taste" from water. ...

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Yes, it will. I am, unfortunately, on Romeoville water, which is well water. (Wish we were on Lake Michigan water. ) I have a PUR faucet mounted charcoal filter and it works great! I can taste a difference in my regular tap water. I buy the filter replacement cartridges at Sam's Club for half of what you pay at the hardware store.

Brewnurse said:

There is a great write-up in BYO for a inline water filter. It's cheap and easy to build, I think Dude already made one. I just got the parts and should be building it soon. It brings down the cost of water to like 1 cent a gallon.

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I use the water that is dispensed from the front of my kitchen refrigerator. It's got an inline filter already, so it works great. It's just slow. I try to pre-buy some spring water from the grocery store, and use some spring water and some filtered fridge water each time. Cuts down on costs. This last time, I used all filtered water cuz I didn't have time to go to the store. We'll see if there's any difference.

Rhoobarb said:

Yes, it will. I am, unfortunately, on Romeoville water, which is well water. (Wish we were on Lake Michigan water. ) I have a PUR faucet mounted charcoal filter and it works great! I can taste a difference in my regular tap water. I buy the filter replacement cartridges at Sam's Club for half of what you pay at the hardware store.

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Yeah, that doesn't work so well when you have one of those kitchen faucets where the entire head comes out of it's "holster" and acts as the sprayer.

Evan! said:

Yeah, that doesn't work so well when you have one of those kitchen faucets where the entire head comes out of it's "holster" and acts as the sprayer.

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LOL! Yeah, good point!

abracadabra said:

What I'm just saying is that a good Reverse Osmosis system is expensive and all it's good for is treating water there are many other uses for a distiller. And if it were my $ a distiller is what I'd buy.

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The thing is if you are using alot of water (like brewing or general household drinking water) a distiller uses a ton of energy to heat the water while an RO system just uses some water down the drain. RO is usually more cost effective than distilled and produces nearly the same result.
Ofcourse you can't make whiskey with an RO system
Craig

CBBaron said:

The thing is if you are using alot of water (like brewing or general household drinking water) a distiller uses a ton of energy to heat the water while an RO system just uses some water down the drain. RO is usually more cost effective than distilled and produces nearly the same result.
Ofcourse you can't make whiskey with an RO system
Craig

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Well yes there are some costs involved in boiling water for distillation purposes.
Boiling wort is not cost free either. I don't know that I would classify that as a ton of energy.

However a RO (Reverse Osmosis) unit is not as cost free as you seem to be suggesting,

this unit

http://www.h2ofilter.net/usro4-50.asp

which also contains a sediment filter and activated carbon unit only warrants the
RO unit for 1 year at a replacement cost of $44.95

The Nov. 2006 BYO magizine states that RO units allow the Choloramine
NH2CL a disinfectant of choice in municpal drinking water sytems and which causes off flavors to past thur the RO membrane. That is where a carbon filter comes in because it removes NH2CL.

The other filters in the unit also need replacement as well the sediment filter $3.95 the carbon filter $16 and the post RO filter $12.

Something that is very important and rarely discussed by the seller of these units and most magazine articles is that these units provide and ideal breeding ground for bacteria hence the reason they need frequent replacement.

Another thing that I like about a distillation unit is that you can use them to extract essential oil from plants and herbs.

I do have a back ground in water treatment I let my Class 2 water treatment lic. expire as I sincerely hope to never have to work at a govt job again.

I am not trying to convince anyone to buy a distillation unit just stating what I'd do with my $ and why.

I'd also like to thank everyone that responded it really got me to thinking about the govt. proabition on distillation. Maybe I'll start a thread about it.

Abracadabra,

I like that you are providing a different view on RO systems. I do have one and love it. B/c I'm on a private well I don't have to worry about chlorine/chloramine in my water but since most R/O systems have charcoal and sediment filter stages before the RO membrane there shouldn't be a problem with chloramine. Also keep in mind that an RO unit should be used regularily because that flushes the membrane and makes the unit last longer.

If a distiller is build well, it should not take a significant amount of enegry. Though all the water needs to evaporated an energy efficient system would heat the incoming water using all the condensation heat of the outgoing water. But this is actually the first time that I hear of using a distiller for home water treatment. How many galons a day can such a home use unit produce?

Kai

Kai

Thank you for your kind words.

If I were you I certainly would not even consider going to another filtration system if you already have a good RO unit in place.

I don't believe that a whole house distillation unit exist if so I am not aware of one. It would not be practical IMHO for use on water that you'll flush down the toilet, shower, wash dishes or launder clothing with.

I'm speak strictly about water for drinking, cooking, using in a steam iron, ultrasonic vaporizer, and brewing with.

I did however want to make sure that people are aware of the potential for bacteriolocial buildup in these other type of units.

A long time ago I sold an actived carbon filter that was impregnated with silver which is a natural bacterostat but they were expensive and didn't sell well.
Plus at the time most people simply did not believe me when I told them that chlorine was not something they should be drinking. (You know what they say about pioneers; They are the one's that have a back full of arrows)
As far as I know nobody makes a unit like that any longer. But bacteria is the main reason the filters with an indicator tell you to discard them or the filter maker says discard them after 3 months, because if you test them for effectiveness they usually are still working just fine. But they can and do lose effectiveness over time as channeling becomes an issue and the carbon becomes saturated.

I also need to mention that I have not done research on bacterial growth in reverse osmosis filtration systems. I talking about carbon filters. This tread has gotten me interested as to whether or not bacteria could pass thur a RO or grow on the post RO filter.

Once again Thank you for the kind words as I often feel like the lone voice crying in the wilderness.

abracadabra said:

Well yes there are some costs involved in boiling water for distillation purposes.
Boiling wort is not cost free either. I don't know that I would classify that as a ton of energy.
However a RO (Reverse Osmosis) unit is not as cost free as you seem to be suggesting,

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Good point on the costs of RO systems. RO systems are not cheap to install and there is a yearly cost for new membranes. However I would like to know how much it costs to produce distilled water with a home system?
Boiling wort is not cheap either even though most brewers seem to ignore this cost. For an all-grain batch the cost of the energy to heat the water and boil the wort is probably %25 or great of the cost of the brew. Unless I'm mistaken creating 8+ gallons of DI water takes much more energy.
I already have an under counter RO system installed so I don't need a distiller. I'm intending to use the RO water to dilute my hard tap water for brewing. I probably did not need an RO system for drinking water but I feel it tastes better than the tap water and its cheaper than buying bottled water for our drinking needs.
Craig

CBBaron said:

Good point on the costs of RO systems. RO systems are not cheap to install and there is a yearly cost for new membranes. However I would like to know how much it costs to produce distilled water with a home system?

Craig

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I thought this thread was talking about water for brewing, drinking and general human consumption. Not treating water to flush down the toilet.

Brewnurse said:

I am still waiting on the filter , was supposed to be here today. Dude said he had to glue it all together because it leaked big time before. So I went ahead and bought the glue. I found the filter at amazon.com for $13.95 before shipping. Hope that helps!

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In reference to the filter as shown in BYO..

If you glue the parts together, then you have to start from scratch with the next filter, right?

Do you have an estimate of the total cost for the pvc parts?

Also, does the filter automatically stop flow when it reaches the end of it's life?

Brewnurse said:

I am still waiting on the filter , was supposed to be here today. Dude said he had to glue it all together because it leaked big time before. So I went ahead and bought the glue. I found the filter at amazon.com for $13.95 before shipping. Hope that helps!

Click to expand...

In reference to the filter as shown in BYO..

If you glue the parts together, then you have to start from scratch with the next filter, right?

Do you have an estimate of the total cost for the pvc parts?

Also, does the filter automatically stop flow when it reaches the end of it's life?

Yes when you gluc pvc or cpvc together, it fuses the parts permanently. After 10000 gallons, you must spend another $40, giving you a cost of $0.004/gallon. No, it doesn't stop flowing, but you'll be able to taste it. If you're brewing 5 gallon AG batches, you're using around 9-10 gallons per batch, giving you a water cost of about 4 cents over 1000 batches, hardly something to worry about.

Brew-boy said:

I cannot use my water because it is nasty. I buy water for my all grain brewing by the 5 gallon jugs like the same kind you find on a water cooler. I know this water is RO and have just read that is bad for all grain. What water should I use, maybe bottled spring water?

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Unless your beers come out nasty why not just use the 'nasty' water? Isnt burton water kind of nasty?

I just use deerpark from Walmart its like 5$ per 5 g's.

Ivan Lendl said:

Unless your beers come out nasty why not just use the 'nasty' water? Isnt burton water kind of nasty?

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So what happens when you want to make a german beer?

aseelye said:

So what happens when you want to make a german beer?

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Deerpark.

Heres how deerpark compares to pilsen water:

Ca2
pilsen 10, DP, .10-31
Mg2
pilsen 3, DP, 1-8
HCo3-1
pilsen 3, DP 1-72
so4-2
pilsen 4, DP 1-7.4
Na1
pilsen 3, DP .7-5.5
Cl1
pilsen 4, DP .1-13

That being said, I dont make german beers.

I go to wal-mart and buy thier artesian spring water. In the 3 gal pack the cost is 50 cents a gal. I've never had a problem with it. My well water on the other hand has made nothing but crappy beer.

Brewnurse said:

I could not find a way to get it on-line, but here is the next best I could do.

Parts needed:

* (1) 2"90 -degree elbow PVC (male and female ends see pic)
* (2) 2" x 1/2" bushing adapter pVC
* (1) 2"x3" coupling PVC
* (1) 1/2" male threadx 5/8" hose barb brass
*(1) 1/2" male thread x 1/2" hose barb brass
* (1) Culligan WHR-140 filter.

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Here's a dumb question, although maybe not so dumb since I don't have the magazine.....

Which end does the water source go in? Is it the 5/8" barb fitting on the left?

Once I know that, I can probably figure out the orientation of the filter.

This may have been mentioned before but I bought a standard RV water filter with hose attachments from Wal-Mart for about $17.50 that made my water taste great right out of the hose. It removes chlorine and water hose taste. It's just a basic charcoal filter I'm sure.

I grew up on well water and while the smell isn't all that great, the taste is really good a pure, however, that depends on the depth of your well. Our well was 450 ft. which is pretty deep for a Florida well. It had a slight sulphur smell to it but tasted great. My neighbor's well was only 150 ft and when he watered his lawn you could smell that mess all the way down the street. Also, all of his sinks and showers had a nice hew of rust red on them from the heavy amounts of iron in his water which also gave it a very metallic taste. Not to mention, the water is so hard at that point that you don't even feel clean after showering in it.