A mystery I need your help solving...

Why all the Phenols!?

I’ve brewed a total of maybe 10 beers. All extract with specialty grains.

Of those, only 3-4 were drinkable; 2 were decent. And only decent. They were my first two. The rest all had a clove, Robitussin (minus the cherry), medicine, clove, twang—all my roommates thought I was trying to poison them.

I need your help. What am I doing wrong?

I’m aware that phenols can come from yeast strain, poor sanitation, unrinsed/unsanitized equipment (I never use bleach), chlorine-like compounds in the tap-water, possibly high fermentation temps (?).

I just tasted a green Caribou Slobber from NB—and it all seemed to be going well (except for accidentally ordering Safbrew 33 instead of Safale05). I was fine with a slightly more alcoholic beer. Even added an extra 8oz of sugar to the boil late to help.

No chiller— cooled with purified ice in bucket (too much ice—was at 45 and had to fish some ice out). But within an hour is was at 64 or so. Pitched the hydrated yeast (it was a semi-starter—added sugar to a little bit of sanitized water and a pinch of yeast nutrient, sat covered for 5-7hrs before pitching)

Did not remove any break.

OG: 1071
Didn’t see much action. After 2wks, 1026. 3wks and a gentle sanitized stir: 1021. 4wks: same. Added hydrated 05 to try and get into the teens. 1 week later: 1019. Bottled.
(fermented in my basement most of the time around 68-70)

It’s only been a week (green), but that very familiar taste is STILL there. Was there with my later hydro readings.

Could the culprit be:
-not removing break? too slow chilling? (get an immersion chiller and strainer)
-the buckets soft parts are contaminated, though I use B-Brite and StarSan? (pitch em and get new ones)
-the siphon hose I used last time and soaked for 72hrs in StarSan was contaminated? (pitch)
-the yeast had no freaking clue what I was doing to them and were stressed out of their mind? (Make a real starter, and make it big)
-the water I use has lots of clorine shiz, though those 10 beers were made in Michigan, Boston, New Hampshire, and now Pittsburgh all had the same off flavors? (Get a water purifier?)

Also thinking of moving to all-grain, but would love to master extract before I move into AG with even more variables…

All help appreciated! Thanks
StuCozzy

What temperature did it actually ferment at? You had it in your basement at 68-70, but the fermentation may have upped the interior liquid temp by another 5 degrees.

Also - I'd make the switch to a good liquid yeast, then do a real starter.

In my opinion for your next brew, do this same one, follow your same process, but purchase two packets of the wyeast 1332 that they recommend for this. 2 so you are pitching with 200 B cells, and can avoid the starter. Although with an OG of 1070 you should probably still do a starter with 2 packets. But my point is, switch up the yeast and use plenty of it. See what that does.

Although if you wanted to use this as an excuse to get an IC that wouldn't be bad.

My bet is on the yeast. Do what luke suggested...same recipe...same procedure, but with proper yeast level. I would also let it bottle condition longer, 3-4 weeks and use bottled water. Before I learned about proper yeast pitching, I had beers that had the tastes you described and I let them condition for several months longer and they turned out just fine.

Temperature control would be your best friend in cleaning up your fermentations. I just started using a temp controlled beverage fridge to ferment ales at 63ish three batches ago. ALL of my batches before I started controlling the ferm temp had off-flavors. I could usually condition these off flavors out, but it would take 2-3 months after bottling/kegging to do so.

Now, with the same process, same everything, and the only new variable being the temp control, no more off flavors and the beers are all ready to drink as soon as they are done carbing. Temp controlled ferms make a HUGE difference.

I got a nice beverage cooler off craigslist that fits three fermentors (mine are cubed HDPE containers, not buckets or carboys) for $125.00 and added a $60.00 Johnson temp controller. You could do the same basic thing with a Son of a Fermentation Chamber for about $60 total (do a search).

Without knowing your ferm temps id say its deffinitly your yeast procedures gone awry.

You should NOT make a starter with simple suger. It makes the yeast not able convert the malt.

luke2080 said:

What temperature did it actually ferment at? You had it in your basement at 68-70, but the fermentation may have upped the interior liquid temp by another 5 degrees.

Also - I'd make the switch to a good liquid yeast, then do a real starter.

In my opinion for your next brew, do this same one, follow your same process, but purchase two packets of the wyeast 1332 that they recommend for this. 2 so you are pitching with 200 B cells, and can avoid the starter. Although with an OG of 1070 you should probably still do a starter with 2 packets. But my point is, switch up the yeast and use plenty of it. See what that does.

Although if you wanted to use this as an excuse to get an IC that wouldn't be bad.

Click to expand...

I think using the 2 smack packs will at least eliminate the yeast variable when I brew this again.

TJTHEBEST said:

Without knowing your ferm temps id say its deffinitly your yeast procedures gone awry.

You should NOT make a starter with simple suger. It makes the yeast not able convert the malt.

Click to expand...

It's seems from these posts that my treatment of the yeast was the culprit. Out of curiosity, since using simple sugar to make a starter, turns the yeast off to converting malt, how come the hyrdo readings still reduce? (How does fermentation still occur? ) Is the fermentation incomplete--producing these phenols? Is that why FireBrew63 had better beers after a lengthy conditioning, when the beers started out phenolic?

I'm going to second the suggestions about yeast and temp, but also add that you should try using some filtered or store-bought spring water. Chlorine is a HUGE issue - even a little can lead to major "mediciny" off flavors. If you can taste it in your tap water, it's definitely too much.

Also, I would not recommend using ice in the fermenter to cool your wort - the ice is potentially not sanitary enough and/or may also have chlorine. Use the ice to make and ice bath and chill the wort in that.

Lastly, when you make starters with simple, non-malt sugars, the yeast essentially shut off their malt-fermenting enzymes. The simple sugars are easier for the yeast to metabolize, so they don't bother spending valuable energy to make the enzymes they'll need when they get pitched into the wort. Some of the cells will eventually produce the necessary enzymes and you'll still get fermentation, but it will be slow and not particularly efficient. All starters should be made with malt extract. Though I would also argue that dry yeast do not need starters - just rehydrate properly and pitch.

Also just realized you used safebrew s-33....IIRC that's a Belgian strain, so it's going to produce quite a few phenols.

Oddly enough the two times I've made session beers (ordinary bitter and Scotch 60/-) I've ended up with beer that smelled and tasted of band-aid/plastic. Once it was Wyeast Irish Ale and another was S-04. Both fermented 66-68°F. I dumped them both because even after 6 months in the bottle the taste & smell were still there. I've never had it with any other beer. I'm thinking it might be chlorine (since I don't have any signs of infection in any beer I've made and I don't use bleach).

I'm thinking infection.
Do you add the "purified ice" to the wort?
If so I'm betting that's the culprit.

Fermentation temps that you describe should not be that troublesome. The problem is simpler.
The tastes you are describing can be from chlorinated water. Don't use tap water, either buy a filter or use bottled water.
Don't put ice cubes in the bucket to chill the wort. If you are doing a partial boil, put the make up water in the fridge. The boil kettle should go into an ice bath (sink full of ice cubes and water). You may need to change out the ice cubes after about 10 minutes. should be able to get cooled, then when the water from the fridge goes in, will get it to pitch temps.

Thanks All--This plus a great episode of NB's Brewing TV (BTV 26--Big Beer Brewing) confirmed that I completely stressed my yeast and made a crappy attempt at a starter.

If you only could get a few new items to slowly build my homebrewery (based on this thread) what would it be? Gas stone w/O2? Stir plate and flask? Wort chiller? Some sort of temp control box (fridge w/johnson control or Son of Fermentation box)?

Thanks again!

I'd say immersion chiller first, then a temp-control box. Or vice-versa.