Marzen lagered 3 months, in keg 1 month, yeast still haven't flocculated!

I repitched a slurry of WLP820, fermented at 52 for 3 weeks, and lagered at 34 for 3+ months, with some additional time at ale temps after lagering. It's been in the keg for a month now. It's really hazy and has a very fruity nose, and it hasn't cleared at all since I kegged it. Which is strange because my hefeweizen is crystal clear, and my previous lager (using WLP810) cleared up within a week.

Now, I have pretty soft water (Nashville municipal) so I suspect the issue is a combination of lack of minerals and the yeast strain I used. I'm thinking of adding a gram or two of calcium chloride to the keg and seeing if that helps. Alternately, I could try some gelatin, but I'm worried that pouring it into the keg may agitate the beer and either oxidize it or cause it to foam over.

Best course of action here?

Are you sure your haze is yeast, and not polyphenols or proteins? Gelatin or Isinglass would certainly help.

Nateo said:

Are you sure your haze is yeast, and not polyphenols or proteins? Gelatin or Isinglass would certainly help.

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With the powerful fruity smell I'm getting, I'm almost certain it's yeast.

Have you heard this ep of brewstrong with Charlie Bamforth? Pretty interesting stuff.
http://www.thebrewingnetwork.com/shows/572

I've got a bunch of their podcasts on my android but I never get around to listening to them. I'll check it out.

I've really only listened to the Charlie Bamforth episodes. Haze and flavor stability are his specialty, and he really knows his stuff. The regular guys on the show I'm not as crazy about.

Charlie recommends chilling as cold as possible. He said 1 day at 29* was better than a month at 32*. After that point, he said to keep the beer as cold as possible. He's got a tremendous amount of other suggestions too, far too many for me to remember and repeat.

One thing I would try, if I were you, is take a pint, and chill it to freezing to try to force flocculation. If you get the yeast to flocc out but the beer is still cloudy, that would tell me you have something else going on there.

Hmm. I could take my keg freezer down to 29 and see how that helps. With the alcohol and CO2 pressure there's not much chance of the beer freezing. Hate to let a whole pint go flat, even for science.

OK. Yesterday afternoon I put it down to 29, then I took a cup of water, added about 2 grams of calcium chloride, boiled it for 5-10 minutes, cooled it down to 170, mixed in about a gram of gelatin, waited until it had cooled to the point where it didn't burn to touch it, and dumped it into the keg. I'll draw half a pint tonight and see if that helped at all.

Pulled a pint last night after adding gelatin and calcium chloride and taking it down to 29 for over 24 hours. I could tell something had settled out because the first little bit was kind of thick and muddy. I dumped that and tried again. It's still cloudy, and I can actually see some individual particles. In fact I suspect (but have no way of comparing) that it might be cloudier now.

So I stuck a half pint in the freezer last night and... it froze. Moved it to the back of the fridge and this morning it was thawed, but no clearer. So I put the glass in the keg freezer and put the probe from the temp controller in it, in case the keg hasn't gotten down to 29 yet and needs more time.

I guess I'm gonna try Polyclar next to see if the haze is protein-related.

When you pull from a keg you're pulling from the bottom, right where that 'cloud' of stuff has settled to. If you wait long enough it will compact enough that you won't pull it from the bottom but that takes time. Or you can just drink the cloudy stuff at the bottom and eventually it should pour clear. When you pour an uber-crystal clear beer with exceptional head retention...you're about to kick that keg.

EDIT: I usually try to wait at least 3-4 days after adding gelatine before I even think about pulling a pint. The longer the better.

Yeah, I guess I should wait a few more days... I'm just a little antsy to get that keg moving since I just kicked my wheat beer and my only other tap is a stout that's not a fast drinker and makes bad headaches the next day. I've got a bock ready to keg but I'm debating leaving it open in case I need to just filter the oktoberfest.

bernerbrau said:

So I put the glass in the keg freezer and put the probe from the temp controller in it, in case the keg hasn't gotten down to 29 yet and needs more time.

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OK, so I did this, and after a couple days the beer in the glass was crystal clear with a compact layer of sediment on the bottom, although it was completely flat and oxidized. But then I pulled a half pint from the keg (after discarding the first couple milliliters, which was another dark blob of gelatin or sediment or something) and it was completely opaque.

I'm going to assume that this is because the beer is being drawn from the region where all the hazy stuff is settling, and just give it a few more days for this layer to fully compact. Meanwhile I've got a bock I need to keg tonight.