very not efficient :-)

did another all grain Double IPA. Did a batch sparge this time as per Beersmith instructions.. Temp held the entire time, then drained, then added water, then drained then added, etc... Question... When adding the water after draining the mash tun. Do I wait a period of time. We were just stirring it up and then waiting 5 minutes and then draining... I did collect about a gallon more than I should have and did not burn as much as I wanted to off, but gravity came out to 1.058 instead of 1.075-1.080. Still had great color and taste... So the question, is MY batch sparging bad, or did I not wait long enough, or should I just fly sparge... etc...

I assume if that is just that way its gonna be and my brewhouse in that cooler, with batch sparging and the way we did it is that efficient then I can just add grains to compensate for the loss? Still had a great time doing it... and learning ALOT.. Any help is appreciated...

Later

Camper

I have only done one BIAB, but am moving to full AG. I have read or seen on Youtube where people do wait a while before draining. It seems to me, in some cases as long as half or a full hour.

B

Anything left behind in your mash tun is lost fermentable sugar, which will lower your efficiency. It sounds like your volumes are off. Also, if you boil longer, you'll raise your OG, but end up with less beer at the end.

How long are you mashing? I went from a 60 minute mash on my first AG to a 90 minute on my second & my efficiency improved from about 60% to 68%. I also used Brewmaster's Warehouse & asked them to crush my grain a little finer. I batch sparge, stir, let sit for 15 minutes, vorlauf, & drain...as far as my personal sparging process goes.

If you're set on keeping your process the same, just add more grain to your recipe to compensate. Also, make sure you stir well throughout.

You did it basically the way I do, and I get pretty decent efficiency. I'll add the sparge water, stir it up and then wait a couple minutes for it to settle, vorlauf a bit to make the bed more compact, and then drain. The whole process takes maybe 25 minutes.

Some things you may want to check -
1. The temp of your sparge water - make sure it gets your grains to 170. You CAN go warmer than that if you want to be sure, despite what people say about extracting tannins.
2. The crush of your grains. You might not have good crush, meaning your grains aren't exposing all their starch to conversion.

You may want to consider extending the amount of time you mash for. Whatever time you are using may not be enough for your ingredients.

If you end up with a gallon more than you anticipated your gravity is definitely going to be lower than what you were aiming for.

But to answer your question more directly, when I batch sparge I usually try to break it up into two batches. I know Bobby M endorsed that in his all grain primer, and it's seemed to work well for me so far. I haven't tried a single batch sparge, but it's in the plans once I finally brew a recipe a second time.

edit - and yes, what bonzombiekitty said about sparge temp is actually more important than you might think. I would always hit around 160*F when sparging, but when I finally got 170*F on a batch, my efficiency bumped up 3%.

First I would agree with others, your volume is off. Your losing sugars left in that extra liquid from the mash. Try reducing the amount of sparge water (that is if your strike volume is correct).

Second try vorlaufing at a slower rate. I used to batch sparge and that was one of my issues that hurt my efficiency. It should take you ~15-20 minutes to drain ~5 gallons from your mash tun. YMMV.

Since I started fly sparging. It takes me about 45 minutes now for the whole sparge. But I get much better efficiency.

As stated earlier, an extra gallon of water will definitely hurt your efficiency. What were your volumes? I usually figure on .125 gals / lb of grain for absorbtion and lose about 1/2 a gallon in the mash tun since I'm just using a stainless braid and don't have a pickup tube that goes all the way to the bottom. After that, what you put in is what should come out.

I do a single batch sparge and usually get between 72 to 78% efficiency. I could probably bump that up into the 80s with a double batch or fly sparging, but I'd rather spend an extra 2 or 3 bucks on grain than spend the extra time. The keys to getting good, and more importantly, consistent efficiency in my experience have been:

1. Buy a grain mill. I have a Barley Crusher that I picked up for about $120 from NB. Once you get it set up, you'll get much better efficiency than buying crushed online or from your LHBS.

2. Stir like mad. When mashing in, make sure every last grain is wet. Any doughballs are going to kill you when it comes to efficiency. Make sure you get into the corners of the tun and around your bulkhead / manifold. Then when it comes to the sparge, I usually set a timer and stir vigorously for at least 3 minutes. This really helps rinse the sugars off.

3. Mash thin. I usually go about 2 qt / lb. I don't have a pH meter, but I haven't had any off flavors from this and get much better efficiency. I'm sure some will violently disagree with this, but it works for me. Might work for you, too.

Never heard of vorlauf before. I love the great info I get from reading these boards. I also had lower OG with my BIAB then expected. Just finished making my mash tun, so I feel I will get better mashes.

Does everyone use a mash paddle or is a big strong spoon good enough?

awesome... See love this forum...

OK... I had 15.5lbs of grain so I used 19.38 qts of water as per beersmith... can I call it BS... we shall... So I got my strike water up to 168 and added to grain, got the grain bed mash to 154.. added ice cubes and brought it down to 152... BAM.. Perfect... closed lid and waited 1 hour. Stirred 3 times during that hour... Then after the hour I drained into carboy... NICE color... Drained it dry... then added 3.79 gallons of water as per BS, stirred for a minute... closed lid, waited 5 minutes... Drained... Lighter color, BUT I did not check temp. The batch sparge water was around 168. SHOULD that be higher?

Then added 1.29 gallons per BS, stirred, waited, drained... Then added 1.29 gallons per BS, stirred, waited, drained... DONE...each time it got more clear...

ok... just check BS, and for some reason I SWORE it said to collect 8.75 gallons, but now it says collect 6.52... oops.... LOL... But for collectting that much it says my eff was 86.8. lol..

I asked my local LBHS and he said he does a medium crush, but would ABSOLUTELY change it as per customer... pretty cool....Gonna do this exact same process again with all ur recommendations to see if I get something different... keep it coming...

That'd have to be one strong spoon. I'm cheap, so I don't have a traditional dowel type mash paddle. I just went to a local restaurant supply store and picked up something like this:

http://www.webstaurantstore.com/36-wood-paddle/79285436.html

By the way, restaurant supply stores have all sorts of goodies for cheap that are all food grade, of course. Great places to pick up brewing supplies.

Great link, my LHBS sells those for a bit more, but what the heck $1-$2 more is worth it to save shipping time and support a great store.

Firebat138 said:

a The batch sparge water was around 168. SHOULD that be higher?

Click to expand...

Yes. You want the grain to hit 170 during a sparge, or a little more. Assuming your sparge water was 168 before you added it to the grain, you were likely in the low 160s.

I agree with some of the rest. Your biggest problem is your volumes. You should use a calculator like brew365.com or brewcalcs.com. It will tell you within a reasonable margin of error how much water you need to mash and sparge and your temps. If you were making a 5 gal batch of beer and you actually put 6 gal in the primary, that's what's making the biggest impact in your OG. When you batch sparge, typically you add your water, close up the cooler and wait about 10 mins. Your mashout temp isn't crucial. It doesn't have to be 170 exactly. Usually, I just dump in 170F-175F water. That's enough to get the grain bed above 160F, which is good enough. I usually get 70%-75% efficiency batch sparging.

Yeah, I was MESSING around with Beersmith and the pre boil volume said it was higher, but I should have known better... It seemed like a lot. But I didnt waste it... I poured the extra in another carboy and will dry hop with different hops...