Dry Stout/Beersmith- 1st attempt

EDIT: I have not actually made this, I am posting this recipe for feedback

Uhhh,
first attempt at both Beersmith and any recipe.
also this will be my first AG.

not sure how to get beersmith to give you that handy dandy report but I got this:
Dry Stout II
Brew Type: All Grain Date: 9/15/2006
Style: Dry Stout Brewer: Peter
Batch Size: 5.00 gal Assistant Brewer:
Boil Volume: 6.00 gal Boil Time: 60 min

Ingredients Amount Item Type % or IBU
10.07 lb Pale Malt (2 Row) UK (3.0 SRM) Grain 58.8 %
3.02 lb Chocolate Malt (450.0 SRM) Grain 17.6 %
2.01 lb Roasted Barley (300.0 SRM) Grain 11.8 %
2.01 lb White Wheat Malt (2.4 SRM) Grain 11.8 %
2.01 oz Goldings, East Kent [5.00%] (60 min) Hops 27.8 IBU
2.01 oz Goldings, East Kent [5.00%] (15 min) Hops 13.8 IBU
2.01 oz Goldings, East Kent [5.00%] (5 min) Hops 5.5 IBU
1 Pkgs Irish Dry Stout (Brewtek #CL-0240) Yeast-Ale

Beer Profile Estimated Original Gravity: 1.089 SG (1.036-1.050 SG) Measured Original Gravity: 1.010 SG
Estimated Final Gravity: 1.021 SG (1.007-1.011 SG) Measured Final Gravity: 1.005 SG
Estimated Color: 90.9 SRM (25.0-45.0 SRM) Color [Color]
Bitterness: 47.2 IBU (30.0-45.0 IBU) Alpha Acid Units: 4.0 AAU
Estimated Alcohol by Volume: 8.9 % (4.0-5.0 %) Actual Alcohol by Volume: 0.6 %
Actual Calories: 43 cal/pint


Not sure what I did exactly, I'm pretty sure this won't end up a 8.9% brew with 43 Calories.

if it does, I'll be a millionaire


Anyway, mathmatical anomolies notwithstanding, any thoughts on the recipe

Where did you get that recipe? I've never seen a stout with white wheat malt in it, looks good!

I kinda jacked (very little) with this Brew-Monkey.com recipe

http://www.brew-monkey.com/recipes/html/midnightstout.htm

I liked the white wheat also (sounds creamy, I'm clueless) so I doubled it.

I REALLY don't know what ingredients do what, but that recipe will cost me about $18 so it's pretty cheap*




*I just spent $53 on a 32 qt brew pot (AL) and $25 on a 5 Gal Igloo

May I ask where you picked up the 32 Qt pot from?

Can you get all that grain in a 5 gallon cooler? Everything I have read says about 13-14 pounds.

Dont worry about what the hydrometer reading says. Mine only ended up 1.04 today even though I know it should have been at least that just based on the adjuncts added. Looks quite bitter and very dark. I would say you could cut everything not including the base malt by half and still end up with a good brew. Then I would recommend collecting 10 gallons total and boiling half of this away (easier said than done). Failing that, cut the base malt and add some extract.

Hold on, 72F was the temperature you mashed at?

72F!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (22C)

Mang, there is no way in hell you are gonna get a good conversion if thats the temperature you mashed at.

Ppanter: at a Chinese restaraunt supply store. $50 + tax, Aluminum. they had Stainless upwards of 80+ quarts.
Funny how most places you look the biggest pot they have is 24 quarts.
At this plaec I bought damn near the smallest they had, obviously a restarant supply thing.

Blender: good question, no ideaLooks like I'll be cutting the grains back.

Turricaine: BOTH the things you are responding to are results of my having NO idea what I'm doing in Beersmith, not actual or planned results.
I'll be mashing at 150 and sparging at 165

Ppanter, sorry, just went down to the introductions and didn;t realize who you were.
it's a small Chinese retaurant supply shop at 13 1/2ish and John R.
Across John R from Target.
Wen's Kitchen Supply, I imagine there are plenty of kitchen supply shops down your way.

I bought the last one on the shelf but I'm sure they'll get more.
i think there is a HUGE savings over buying froma brew supply place because those tend to be Stainless Stell and have valve's and thermostats by time you get to 32 Quarts.

ppanter, the Taylor store lists a Stainless 5 gallon brew pot for $20.

snatch that bad boy up!!!

you'll want to do a few partial boils (3 gallons) first, you're beer will be darker, and you'll loose a touch of hopiness, but they are much more manageable, and when you add the 3 gallons of cold bottled (or tap) water, you'll get close to pitching temperature in a hurry.

My main objection to this post is that you might give a novice the impression that it's okay to do this recipe which would tarnish the reputation of homebrewing oweing to the fact that it has several things wrong with it.

I mean how can you not know that your target mash temp is 144F-151F (>62C - <66C)? Surely this has to be amongst the top ten most fundamental concepts of homebrewing, up there with sanitation, sparge temp, recipe calculation, yeast pitching temp, etc etc.

But it addition to that your recipe itself is crumby. What you need to do is go onto promash (or other) and find a style of beer that takes your fancy and then make sure everything falls "in-spec" (in otherwords all your variables have to fall inside the range give). Ideally you want to get it right in the middle, so say for instance in IBU is 20-40 then you would want this at 30 to allow for a margin for error.

I think its important that you need to learn about what is going on 'behind the scenes' rather than just blindly following somebody elses recipe. I learnt this on the first ever recipe thatr I followed adding 3 ounces of golding hops for 60 min in a mild bitter. Needless to say it was a harsh lesson to have to learn from.

Thanks for your input.

My main objection to your post is that either didn't read or didn't understand my post.

I explained that I had not made this recipe ("this WILL be my first AG"), everyone seemed to get that except you.
I explained that there were mathematical mistakes ("mathematical anomolies not withstanding") based on the fact that I had not used Beersmith before.

Chairman Cheyco seemed to think it looked OK.
I'm not following someone else's recipe blindly, I'm posting a recipe here and asking you fine experienced gentlemen your opinion. Which is the EXACT opposite of following someone else's recipe blindly

Perhaps I did not indicate that the actual procedures are whacked, I will go delete that section of the recipe in order to prevent others from not reading this thread and thinking that this is a usable procedure.

As for "how can you not know that your target mash temp is 144F-151F"
umm, I followed up with a post saying I would be mashing at 150F, last I checked that was between 144F-151F, not trying to be a dick here, but if you have such objections to my post it might serve you well to actually read it.

as for the recipe being "crummy" I will put you in the "Nay" catagory. unfortunately you don't offer any real advice other than to go somewhere else for real advice.

again, not trying to be a dick, but the tone of your post is quite a turnoff.

Well you have edited it so you can see that it makes it look like u have done it already, and the *will* word simply implies that its in the primary fermenter and its too late to change anything. You even have the brewdate there as the 15th so if that doesnr imply that you already did it I must be mistaken.

So, if you havent done this recipe yet, get a new one. My advice to you is not to follow this miscellaneous procedure.

Chill out, folks. There are relatively harsh words being exchanged here for absolutely no reason.

Yeah, don't get heated up about a recipe. When you print the reports is usually puts the current day in the date field. It does not mean that it has been brewed yet. I never thought that it had been done when I read it initially that is why I added the comment on grain size.

The 72 degree entry in the report indicated the grain temp for strike water calculations and not mash temp at all.
pbowler, why not just do the linked recipe? It looks like a good stout and you can fiddle with ingredients after trying that one first. he linked recipe mashed at 158. I would try it at 154-155 or so myself.

Turricaine said:

Well you have edited it so you can see that it makes it look like u have done it already, and the *will* word simply implies that its in the primary fermenter and its too late to change anything. You even have the brewdate there as the 15th so if that doesnr imply that you already did it I must be mistaken.

So, if you havent done this recipe yet, get a new one. My advice to you is not to follow this miscellaneous procedure.

Click to expand...

I don't understand. what do you mean if? I've stated at least 3 times that I have not doen it yet. Not sure how else to say it.

as for miscellaneous precedure again I don't understand what you mean.

I've stated twice at least that I was only looking for feedback on the recipe not the procedure, again I doubt you're reading my posts.

but thanks for your input nonetheless, I am in NO position to ignore advice or suggestions.
I will not follow the procedure that was inadvertantly created by my inexperience with beersmith.

with respect to the actual recipe I will follow the input from others and adjust the grain levels.

in the future I will try to remove every possible ambiguity from my Threads
again thanks for your input

Walker-san said:

Chill out, folks. There are relatively harsh words being exchanged here for absolutely no reason.

Click to expand...

My apologies. I tried to direct the harsh words at myself.

I was looking for help and felt mildly flamed.

I apologize again

pbowler said:

My apologies. I tried to direct the harsh words at myself.

I was looking for help and felt mildly flamed.

I apologize again

Click to expand...

No no no... YOU have no reason to apologize. You handled yourself pretty well, IMHO.

Blender said:

Yeah, don't get heated up about a recipe. When you print the reports is usually puts the current day in the date field. It does not mean that it has been brewed yet. I never thought that it had been done when I read it initially that is why I added the comment on grain size.

The 72 degree entry in the report indicated the grain temp for strike water calculations and not mash temp at all.
pbowler, why not just do the linked recipe? It looks like a good stout and you can fiddle with ingredients after trying that one first. he linked recipe mashed at 158. I would try it at 154-155 or so myself.

Click to expand...

Good call, thats what I'll do.
the only thing I changed was the amount of White Wheat, and added 1 oz of hops at 5 mins, per the recipes comments

One quick help about making a recipe in beersmith, your estimated gravity should fall into the style OG. If the Stye OG numbers are bold then you have to adjust. And the calorie estimater is taken from the actual OG and FG, to be done after you brew and before you bottle or keg.

On your recipe, when you hear the word dry try to make the FG as low as posible. The higher the FG the sweeter the beer will be. Dry stouts are a session beer when to be drank a lot and not be totally drunk. The creaminess you think of when drinking Guiniess comes from the nitrogen used. It sounds like a sweet stout is what you are looking for. That will allow you to use more 2-row and speciality grains. The wheat should add some protens if you don't add anything like Irish Moss. Add a little lactose and that will make it creamy.

If you are using the 5 gallon cooler mentioned before I can only get 12 pounds of grain total. Using beersmith I came up with this,

Style: Sweet Stout
TYPE: All Grain

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 5.00 gal
Boil Size: 6.00 gal
Estimated OG: 1.055 SG (Style OG 1.042-1.056)
Estimated FG: 1.014 FG (Style FG 1.010-1.023)
Estimated Color: 43.1 SRM
Estimated IBU: 35.7 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.0 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU
7.00 lb Pale Malt (2 Row) UK (3.0 SRM) Grain 66.7 %
1.00 lb Chocolate Malt (350.0 SRM) Grain 9.5 %
1.00 lb Roasted Barley (300.0 SRM) Grain 9.5 %
1.00 lb White Wheat Malt (2.4 SRM) Grain 9.5 %
1.50 oz Goldings, East Kent [5.00%] (60 min) Hops 26.8 IBU
1.00 oz Goldings, East Kent [5.00%] (15 min) Hops 8.9 IBU
1.00 oz Goldings, East Kent [5.00%] (5 min) (AromaHops) -
0.50 lb Milk Sugar (Lactose) (0.0 SRM) Sugar 4.8 %

ok, this is gonna sound weak as hell, but I'm lactose intolerant...

I really enjoy guiness, which is a dry stout correct?
what makes this sweet versus dry?

is there a commercial sweet stout you think this might compare to (sans lactose)?
or another "sweet stout"?
thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you

Read this link it may help. > http://www.bjcp.org/styles04/Category13.html

Blender said:

Read this link it may help. > http://www.bjcp.org/styles04/Category13.html

Click to expand...

Brilliant thanks.

I think I am after a dry stout, a really don't like them sweet.

do you (guys) think that adding 1 lb of pale malt and eliminating the lactose in the recipe Souse was kind enough to supply would do the trick?

I didn't read through the whole thread so sorry if my suggestions have already been mentioned.

To be honest, I don't think that recipe will turn out very well, let alone as a dry stout. I would tone down the OG because you're going to be having a tough time attenuating down to your target. Shoot for around 1.045, and it will be pretty easy to get below 1.010 - what you've got is more like what I'd call an export stout. Mash it pretty low (64C) to help along with the attentuation.

I would go for about 40-50 IBU's using whatever english hop you like - Goldings is a good choice. I would leave out the late additions as a stout is more about the roasted barley character rather than hop character. I would also simplify your grain bill - the wheat malt might add an interesting dimension but it isn't really true to style - also I think 2Lb of roasted barley will be a little overwhelming, I'd half this. The chocolate malt is a little OTT, too.

Hope your first AG turns out well, and good luck with it.

EDIT : Just saw that you're mentioning lactose - leave this out unless you want your stout tasting like milk bottles, it is totally out of place in a dry stout. Draught Guinness is a dry stout.

Ok, sorry that I didnt realize the recipe at the top of the thread isnt done. The advise by sause looks good. Its a mega improvement over the one you posted. With the roasted barely and chocolate malt use 1/2 pound of one or the other but not both together (you can if you want but it will make it completely black). Then, with the hops its up to you how many you use, some people use more, others use less, aim for a IBU of 30, then it's optional if you have some left over for aroma purposes. 1/2 pound of sugar is good.

Mysterio and Turricaine,

ok guys, good stuff thanks.

The brewer of the original recipe had a comment suggesting the addition of the third oz of hops after his was done.

I'm gonna follow the overwhelming advice of theboard and simplify it greatly.
the Lactose was from a suggested recipe by Sause for a sweet stout, however I think I'm gonna go with the dry stout, and on top of that I'm lactose intolerant.

I will save the White weat for another time.

and pare the Barley/Choc malt down as well.

I really like stout dry with a bite, and your guys' suggestions are great

Thanks a ton

7.00 lb Pale Malt (2 Row) UK (3.0 SRM) Grain
1.00 lb Chocolate Malt (350.0 SRM) Grain
1.0 lb Roasted Barley (300.0 SRM) Grain
2oz Goldings, East Kent [5.00%] (60 min)

Ive checked over this properly now and the values quoted above will be suited to your "dry stout".

ok, I like it. I don't mind it BLAAAACK

I suggested the lactose because you liked it creamy and the amount of grain in your recipe, and that would do it. If you looking for a dry than lactose would be way out of place a dry sout is a very simple beer.

7lb English malt
1lb Roasted Barley
.5 lb Flaked Barley (this will help with the feel of the beer)

2oz. EKG's for 60min or any other English hop

As mysterio said you want the FG really low in a dry stout.

Hope this helps.

Sorry to add to the confusion, but if you are looking for a nice mouth feel you might think of adding some oatmeal...

What does the board think?

TA