Saison Cottage House Saison

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azscoob said:
Glad you like it! I have to admit that I like this beer with thanksgiving and Christmas dinner.... Proper beer brewing and drinking calendar be damned!!!
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who cares when?! 😄. Actually with a big saison like this, 8ish percent, makes a good winter saison. I am going to scale this one down for a 5-6% version this spring.
 
3711 and bell saison. I don't feel like jacking with some sort of heater at this current point in time, so just going to let it do it's thing, which normally means pitch at 70ish and it free rising and then settling back down to 70. Much cooler if in my brew closet (damn suspended floor house)!

Seems like the Bell Saison will be more tolerant of the temps and still finish in a hurry.
 
BHowe said:
3711 and bell saison. I don't feel like jacking with some sort of heater at this current point in time, so just going to let it do it's thing, which normally means pitch at 70ish and it free rising and then settling back down to 70. Much cooler if in my brew closet (damn suspended floor house)!

Seems like the Bell Saison will be more tolerant of the temps and still finish in a hurry.
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I've fermented with 3711 in the mid 60s all the way through with no issues in attenuation, but a tick less funk in that batch
 
BHowe said:
3711 and bell saison. I don't feel like jacking with some sort of heater at this current point in time, so just going to let it do it's thing, which normally means pitch at 70ish and it free rising and then settling back down to 70. Much cooler if in my brew closet (damn suspended floor house)! Seems like the Bell Saison will be more tolerant of the temps and still finish in a hurry.
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That will work, but it is really very cheap and easy IMO to RAISE temps, for those interested. I have $5 plastic tubs from Walmart that hold like 20 gallons (?) of water and a $10 aquarium heater... Easy to get into the 80s for Belgian funk all year round...
 
NuclearRich said:
Flaked grains are pre-gelatinized, rolled, dried. Sugar extraction shouldn't be an issue.
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I know, never had a problem before but I put it in an ABV calculator at my standard effeciency and took the oats out, ABV was bang on what I hit.
 
studio1one said:
I know, never had a problem before but I put it in an ABV calculator at my standard effeciency and took the oats out, ABV was bang on what I hit.
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If you just took the oats out, of course the abv goes down, you are straight subtracting fermentables from the calculation. If you subbed 2row, the estimate should be very close to the same.

I don't see how flaked cereals could give you a problem on their own with sugars. Perhaps a too-thick or too-fast mash, or a poor crush on the rest of the grist?
 
I'm sort of thinking there was an overall mash issue to drop your numbers, do you crush your own or do you buy precrushed grain? I used to have wildly varied efficiency numbers before I got my own mill, even then untill I dialed in my process to a repeatable procedure I was still all over the map on my numbers
 
I'm about 2 gallons into my keg and this beer has changed drastically. IT went from looking exactly like everything posted here, to something that is crystal clear and slightly lacking in that "saison flavor" that I can't really describe, but know so well.

Anyone have any idea what has happened here? I didn't do any refining, my keg is completely oxygen purged and is not leaking. Really weirded out right now! My fridge is set to 44 with a 2 degree differential.
 
NuclearRich said:
I did a 2gallon pilot batch last night, a tweak from this recipe. I didnt have the same hops on hand, so just subbed what I had (Sorachi & tett for FWH, willamette for 30min, cent for 15). The interesting tweak was to make 25% of the grain bill wild rice. I pre-gelatinized it and then crushed it up a little, added to the mash and tried to mash as normal. Since this was a pilot batch, it wouldn't work on my normal setup (MLT is 72qt coleman xtrreme, so a small grainbill barely covers the floor)... well I suppose it could have worked, but the setup and cleaning wasnt worth it, so I did the batch in the kitchen. After 4years of brewing, I've done my first batch ever in the kitchen! I used a pasta boiler/colander combo as a MLT and it worked pretty nicely. I had some difficulty maintaining the mash temps, but I was between 140 and 160 lol. The efficiency definitely took a hit, but it is hard to say if my low OG was due entirely from that or partially from unconverted rice (no iodine test). OG was 1.042. Pitched onto bottle dregs from 2 big bottles of my last saison (no saison yeast at LHBS...).

All in all, certainly a cottage house example... whatever I had on hand basically! I am very interested in the flavor the rice will impart, and I will update when I can! Cheers
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I bottled this on Sat. The gravity sample was... interesting to taste lol. It was overly bitter, I'm guessing a couple things could have increased bitterness: smaller volume and lower gravity increased utilization during boil, and maybe while scaling hops down I should have used a lower ratio than 1:1. Also the pepper was strong but I had the same thing happen the last time I brewed a full batch. I think using fresh crushed black pepper rather than pre-ground pepper adds a much more intense flavor. The FG was 1.012 IIRC, putting this right about 4%ABV. Not quite as dry as I've gotten it in the past, likely caused by one of two things: using dregs and not properly stepping up the yeast, and perhaps the rice added more unfermentables.
I'm hoping the bottle conditioning gives the more intense hoppy and peppery flavors time to dial down. It was hard to say if I detected any differences the wild rice put it, but I'll wait to really judge until its been carbed and chilled.
 
NuclearRich said:
I bottled this on Sat. The gravity sample was... interesting to taste lol. It was overly bitter, I'm guessing a couple things could have increased bitterness: smaller volume and lower gravity increased utilization during boil, and maybe while scaling hops down I should have used a lower ratio than 1:1. Also the pepper was strong but I had the same thing happen the last time I brewed a full batch. I think using fresh crushed black pepper rather than pre-ground pepper adds a much more intense flavor. The FG was 1.012 IIRC, putting this right about 4%ABV. Not quite as dry as I've gotten it in the past, likely caused by one of two things: using dregs and not properly stepping up the yeast, and perhaps the rice added more unfermentables.
I'm hoping the bottle conditioning gives the more intense hoppy and peppery flavors time to dial down. It was hard to say if I detected any differences the wild rice put it, but I'll wait to really judge until its been carbed and chilled.
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Drinking this now. Tasty like the regular recipe. Still a little more bitter than usual, and I think I detect a spiciness similar to rye in there as well, almost a tang. I think ill further advance my experiments in the spring. Wild rice and Brett. Any suggestions? I think I'll take out the pepper just so I can taste the beer in the raw.
 
I just brewed this about 6 weeks ago and just as everybody else has said THIS IS ONE GOOD BEER!!! What an awesome recipes!!! I'm almost out of it already and going to my LHBS tomorrow to brew this again. This was my second all grain I did (first one didn't turn out to well) and was so happy it turned out so good. CONGRATS!! :mug:
 
I do not yet know exactly what phenols taste like but from reading it sounds like fermenting in mid 60s the whole time will give the beer that character.

On the other hand I am hearing that going high as 85 will give fruity flavors.

I REALLY like lambics and the super funk that comes with it so I have some of that fermenting at the moment. What my question is - For this Saison should I ferment on the high end (85) or low end (60s) based on the preferences I described?

I don't know of what I describe is "phenolic" or "fruity". Please pardon my arrogance.
 
azscoob said:
The higher the fermentation the more funk you get, so fermenting in the 80s would be what you want to do.
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Thanks azscoob. Am I good to transfer the wort to the carboys then put those right into a tub of 85 degree water? (I bought two aquarium heaters and will be making an 11 gal batch split between two carboys)
 
Zippox said:
Thanks azscoob. Am I good to transfer the wort to the carboys then put those right into a tub of 85 degree water? (I bought two aquarium heaters and will be making an 11 gal batch split between two carboys)
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When I'll done this recipe I found a electric heating pad works wonders for high temp management
 
I wasn't too worried managing the heat, just wondering if I can start and stay at 85 from the get-go, or if a little bit of ramping is needed.
 
Zippox said:
I wasn't too worried managing the heat, just wondering if I can start and stay at 85 from the get-go, or if a little bit of ramping is needed.
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I ramped mine and it turned out a little bit too clean. It was fantastic, really. But as far a what is supposed to be a belgian style it lacked some of the funk I expected and was hoping for. It was a huge hit with everyone including me, but could have used a little more funk. I have never started anything hot ever so I don't know what it would do... but if you start around 65 and ramp a few degrees per day until hitting 85 or so it doesn't seen to add the funk as much as I would have hoped for.

That said I will brew this again and keep ferment temps around 65 for the duration to see what type of super clean awesomesauce I come up with. I suppose I should probably mention that I used safbrew T-58 but stayed true to the original grain bill and hop schedule. Not sure exactly how much that has to do with it but either way this recipe is a winner.
 
Zippox said:
I wasn't too worried managing the heat, just wondering if I can start and stay at 85 from the get-go, or if a little bit of ramping is needed.
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I ramped mine and it turned out a little bit too clean. It was fantastic, really. But as far a what is supposed to be a belgian style it lacked some of the funk I expected and was hoping for. It was a huge hit with everyone including me, but could have used a little more funk. I have never started anything hot ever so I don't know what it would do... but if you start around 65 and ramp a few degrees per day until hitting 85 or so it doesn't seen to add the funk as much as I would have hoped for.

That said I will brew this again and keep ferment temps around 65 for the duration to see what type of super clean awesomesauce I come up with. I suppose I should probably mention that I used safbrew T-58 but stayed true to the original grain bill and hop schedule. Not sure exactly how much that has to do with it but either way this recipe is a winner.
 
Zippox said:
I wasn't too worried managing the heat, just wondering if I can start and stay at 85 from the get-go, or if a little bit of ramping is needed.
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Good practice is generally to ramp up to that temp, I believe.

Also just want to note that 3711 and T-58 are cleaner yeasts from what I've heard, compared to 3724 or 3726, in terms of the amount of funk you can get from them.
 
BGBC said:
Good practice is generally to ramp up to that temp, I believe.

Also just want to note that 3711 and T-58 are cleaner yeasts from what I've heard, compared to 3724 or 3726, in terms of the amount of funk you can get from them.
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Yeah ramping is what reduces the fusel alcohol, 'hot'-ness. You don't want to start hot, but you do want a high end temp towards the end of active fermentation.
 
I did not know that 3711 was known to be cleaner and produce less funk than others. I already bought the yeast so looks like I'll have to work with it.

Is a ramp of starting at 78 then going up to 85 within 32 hours alright? Or is even 78 too high you think?
 
I brewed this up yesterday. Missed my OG by about 10 points (probably because of my boil off rate being way off) but I'm optimistic it'll turn out well.

Out of curiosity, how do you all keep your temps consistently in the 70s-80s? We keep our house in the mid 60s during the winter.
 
Cheesy_Goodness said:
Out of curiosity, how do you all keep your temps consistently in the 70s-80s? We keep our house in the mid 60s during the winter.
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A 20 gallon storage bin filled with water and an aquarium stick heater. I got my aquarium heater from amazon for about 17 bucks.
 
Zippox said:
A 20 gallon storage bin filled with water and an aquarium stick heater. I got my aquarium heater from amazon for about 17 bucks.
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+1. I got a couple of those plastic laundry tubs w rope handles at Walmart for five bucks each. I always put my fermenter in there w water, if anything it absorbs the heat coming off the fermenter and keeps the temps stable. In hot weather you can add frozen two liter bottles to cool it down.
 
Cheesy_Goodness said:
I brewed this up yesterday. Missed my OG by about 10 points (probably because of my boil off rate being way off) but I'm optimistic it'll turn out well. Out of curiosity, how do you all keep your temps consistently in the 70s-80s? We keep our house in the mid 60s during the winter.
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My fermentation fridge does double duty, it is a fridge with a dual mode temp controller (eBay fish tank heater control hack) so I can run the fridge to keep things cool, or it can run a small ceramic heater to keep things warm, it works rather well for me
 
My stir plate broke. I have 196 grams of DME mixed into 1960 ml (nearly 2L) with the yeast pitched in. Me swirling it periodically wont get the BeerSmith suggested 372 billion yeast cells but will this be alright? I don't need to boil more water, cool it, and add it do I?

I should note I am making a 9 gallon batch.
 
Zippox said:
My stir plate broke. I have 196 grams of DME mixed into 1960 ml (nearly 2L) with the yeast pitched in. Me swirling it periodically wont get the BeerSmith suggested 372 billion yeast cells but will this be alright? I don't need to boil more water, cool it, and add it do I? I should note I am making a 9 gallon batch.
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It will be fine. It may just take a little longer. Keep swirling :)
 
So I started the starter this evening. When do I put it in the fridge? Once it's no longer active? And it will be fine to pull it back out Saturday or Sunday (brew day) right?
 
Zippox said:
So I started the starter this evening. When do I put it in the fridge? Once it's no longer active? And it will be fine to pull it back out Saturday or Sunday (brew day) right?
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Yes, put in the fridge when the krausen falls and fermentation dies down. If you started this evening, fermentation may not complete until Saturday ... Thoughts of using it on Saturday may be little too optimistic. You don't have to put it in the fridge at all - you can dump the whole thing in your wert when you are ready.
 
This recipe describes draining the mash onto the "First Wort Hops" then proceeds with batch sparging. I assume batch sparging drains into the keggle quicker than doing fly sparging. So my question is if I take the time to fly sparge, will the FWHs have a different character because the hops will be in the wort for a much longer period of time while I am draining?

Any other changes I should notice?
 
Zippox said:
This recipe describes draining the mash onto the "First Wort Hops" then proceeds with batch sparging. I assume batch sparging drains into the keggle quicker than doing fly sparging. So my question is if I take the time to fly sparge, will the FWHs have a different character because the hops will be in the wort for a much longer period of time while I am draining? Any other changes I should notice?
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When I batch sparge I split the sparge into two seperate ones so I have my dough in volume, that I give a good stir to a few minutes before draining, my mash tun valve is opened about 25-30% because any more and I cannot get clear runnings (I crush my grain at a rather tight .022 currently) then I split my sparge volume into two seperate sparges, adding, stirring and letting sit 10-15 minutes, stirring again and letting it sit another 5-10 minutes to set the grain bed before slowly draining into the kettle, so between my first runnings onto the first wort hops and my split batch sparges...... with the time I let it rest to pull the most sugars out that I can with my gear, I would say the hops sit in the kettle before I start the boil for a good hour or more typically.

I've never fly sparged but I would imagine the time it takes can't be out of line with my process, I have very good results with the FWH using my turtle speed sparging, in fact I FWH most all of my recipes and always get compliments on the resulting beers.
 
This was one of 3 beers I entered in my first ever competition and I won gold for style and 3rd in BOS. I couldn't believe it! The brewer from moerlein said it was a good beer.

http://www.moerleincup.nkyhomebrewers.org/

part16john said:
This was a hit with my family.
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I brewed this last night. I used citra hops, only had access to caravienne instead of caramunich and I couldn't find orange blossom honey at my Kroger so I used some local honey. I went with 3711 and it's bubbling away nicely, I used a blowoff tube after reading some of the posts. I will post a picture when it's ready.
 
I decided to start fermentation with a higher temperature. It started at 75 for about 12 hours, then bumped up to 78 for another 12, now am sitting at 82 and will leave it there for a bit. -- I wanted to have some funky flavors come out of the 3711 (even though I heard it's not going to give out much).

Should I continue at 82 for the rest of the 4 weeks or bring it down?
 

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