Making Traditional rice Wine. Cheap, Fun, and Different

JuanMoore said:

I think that's a typo and should read 1/3 oz, not 1 1/3 oz. He mentioned earlier that he uses .33 oz per 1.5 cups of rice.

Click to expand...

OK that makes sense. I do remember reading that now that you mention it.

So I'm still a little under that but I'm sure it'll be OK.

A friend of mine loaned me his rice cooker yesterday to make more. Problem is, you need a masters in engineering to figure the damn thing out. Im not even sure where the water goes. He's going to have to come over and show me.

I see them at thr thrift stores all the time. It seems like way more than I care to get involved in.

CreamyGoodness said:

A friend of mine loaned me his rice cooker yesterday to make more. Problem is, you need a masters in engineering to figure the damn thing out. Im not even sure where the water goes. He's going to have to come over and show me.

Click to expand...

I bet you can for intrusions on the Internet naught save you some grief and possible embarrassment

Tinhorn said:

I bet you can for intrusions on the Internet naught save you some grief and possible embarrassment

Click to expand...

haha I tried that... the instructions are all in Japanese!

Ahhhhh. Soooo

Sorry that was so wrong


I need a filter!

CreamyGoodness said:

haha I tried that... the instructions are all in Japanese!

Click to expand...

You don't read Japanese!? Geez wtf dude? Read the language or leave the country ;D

elkshadow said:

I may have just way underpitched this bigger batch. I use about 17 grams for 4 cups.

If you're balls are 10 G also, you'd be pitching ~37 grams per 1.5 cups? Am I reading it wrong or are your balls smaller than mine?

Click to expand...

JuanMoore said:

I think that's a typo and should read 1/3 oz, not 1 1/3 oz. He mentioned earlier that he uses .33 oz per 1.5 cups of rice.

Click to expand...

Yup, typo. I forgot a couple of commas. I use 1 rice yeast ball for 1.5 cups of dry rice. Each rice yeast ball is 1/3 of an ounce, or about 10 grams.

CreamyGoodness said:

A friend of mine loaned me his rice cooker yesterday to make more. Problem is, you need a masters in engineering to figure the damn thing out. Im not even sure where the water goes. He's going to have to come over and show me.

Click to expand...

I have two and all you do is add rice and water and push the button...

I went ahead and did all seven batches I was talking about. Here's the thumbnail sketch of them. I'm to tired to be really in depth, but I need to get everything down while it's all still in my head.

The nutrient batches have 1/8 tsp of yeast nutrient dissolved in the water before cooking. Each batch contains 1 1/2 cups of dry jasmine rice cooked with a 1:1.5 ratio of rice to water and has been cooled overnight.

1. 3 tbs crushed RYR + 1/3 oz crushed yeast ball (control)
2. 1/3 oz crushed yeast ball (control #2)
3. 3 tbs crushed home dried RYR
4. 3 tbs crushed home dried RYR + 1/3 oz crushed yeast ball
5. 3 tbs refrigerated RYR starch mass
6. 3 tbs crushed RYR + 1/3 oz crushed rice yeast ball + nutrient
7. 1/3 oz crushed yeast ball + nutrient

I found the home dried RYR to be extremely hard and impossible to crush in my mortar and pestle. I used my coffee grinder, which is stainless and comes apart enough to be cleaned really well, to powder it.

The batches are in order from left to right in the following pictures.

Very cool. I look forward to the results.

Lead, can't wait to follow those results.

More results from my batches:

Batch #1: I squoze the lees on this one back last Thursday. This batch fermented for one week using 1.5 cups (dry, pre-cooked amount) K. Rose sushi rice and one crushed dried yeast ball. It yielded a little over 32 oz. liquid on squeezing day and I placed it in my fridge in a 32 ounce swing top bottle. I brought it to my local bottle share for tasting on Sunday and there was a mild carbonation upon opening. Great fruit flavor with some background alcohol and a mild acidic note with a clean finish. I brought the rest home (approx. 20 ounces) and put it back in my fridge. I opened the bottle just now and BOOP! Serious carbonation pop and hiss from the bottle. I poured a six ounce glass of fizzing boozey wine/beer/champagne. MUUUCH higher in alcohol content and a serious amount of CO2 gas on it. Same flavors, definitely more alcohol and highly carbonated.

Note to self: Pasteurize when you bottle and don't bottle the rice wine too soon. Even if it tastes amazing.

Batch #2: Still fermenting. Same size batch as Batch #1 only this one is going the full three weeks before squeezing the lees. Everything in this jar is looking great.

Batch #3: I'll be starting this batch with a mix of RYR and K. Rose sushi rice. I managed to find a small package of RYR at a local Asian market after asking the clerk for it. This one will go a full three weeks.

Batch #4: I found a small Japanese market out at the beaches that has Koji Rice, so for batch #4, i'll post updates about that in the Traditional Sake thread. I plan on picking up some Mead yeast for it from my LHBS in the near future.

WesleyS said:

It kills the yeast and prevents continued fermentation. So you can keep it around longer without it changing, carbonating, or exploding what you bottle it in. The yeast in these balls tends to keep working even at refrigeration temps.

Click to expand...

Pasteurization also helps prevent lacto-infection, something all rice wine and sake is notorious for developing if not pasteurized. In fact, sake is double pasteurized.


Newsman...how did your harvesting go?

saramc said:

Pasteurization also helps prevent lacto-infection, something all rice wine and sake is notorious for developing if not pasteurized. In fact, sake is double pasteurized.

Newsman...how did your harvesting go?

Click to expand...

Yes, thank you. I forgot to mention killing the lacto. That's very important if anyone wants to keep this stuff around for any length of time.

When I did my last batch, a 3L scaled-up version, I ended up forgetting about the whole 'making rice' thing and burned the bottom. I separated off the blackened parts but a decent chunk of the lower rice was oranged/browned.

It's been a few months later after bottling and it's still nice - with a bit of biscuit to it but just a touch more acidity than there would have otherwise been. I've kilned the rice!

Alright Lead, I found the RYR in the store. It was where you said it was. Thanks for that. Am I correct that you just powderize it like the balls and use 2 TBs. per cup of rice? Leave it whole and mix it in with the regular rice?

I saw in my Safeway here in Littleton they have all kinds of Thai Jasmine rice in all sizes of bags so I'll be experimenting with it.

Thanks

elkshadow said:

Alright Lead, I found the RYR in the store. It was where you said it was. Thanks for that. Am I correct that you just powderize it like the balls and use 2 TBs. per cup of rice? Leave it whole and mix it in with the regular rice?

I saw in my Safeway here in Littleton they have all kinds of Thai Jasmine rice in all sizes of bags so I'll be experimenting with it.

Thanks

Click to expand...

Yup, I crush it the same way I do the rice yeast balls. Then I toss the cooled rice with both at the same time.

Huh, you guys are crushing it? I have been adding it as is and have had good success. Obviously both ways work. Does it crush to a powder, or do you need to grind it in a coffee grinder?

sonofgrok said:

Next you will want to crush the yeast balls into a fine powder. Yes that is a hammer and I just smash it up in a ziplock bag.

Click to expand...

TBBrewer said:

Huh, you guys are crushing it? I have been adding it as is and have had good success. Obviously both ways work. Does it crush to a powder, or do you need to grind it in a coffee grinder?

Click to expand...

See above

*Edit* In hindsight I see that you probably meant the RYR

Yep, RYR. I was just under the assumption that the mold was on the surface of the grains and that pulverizing them would be unnecessary.

TBBrewer said:

Yep, RYR. I was just under the assumption that the mold was on the surface of the grains and that pulverizing them would be unnecessary.

Click to expand...

It seems to have grown through the entire RYR nugget, though there are small white flecks where no RYR has grown on the inside.

I use a mortar and pestle usually. Neither the RYR, nor the rice yeast balls are difficult to crush into a powder by hand. The homemade RYR was a different story. It turned practically into stone. I had to use my coffee grinder on that.

OK thanks. Just an update as well. The big batch I made hasn't gotten watery liquid yet after a week. It definitely has some thicker stuff in the pockets but it looks a lot more like the pics in this thread. I see some white caps on top o the fungus is happening. I'll be whipping up a batch with the RYR today or tomorrow.

I'm thinking I added the yeast while the rice was still a little hot the last time and that's why I got so much liquid so fast.

These yeast balls have got me wondering..... I wonder if it is the yeast balls that give the rice wine that wonderful aroma and flavor? Also, thinking of doing a little experiment with wort and the yeast balls since the alcohol resistance is so high.. could possibly create a 1 of a kind SUPER High gravity brew!!!!:rockin:

sonofgrok said:

I have two and all you do is add rice and water and push the button...

Click to expand...

The new one I bought is really complex to operate. After adding the rice and water I have to press the power button to turn it on. Then I have to choose between the warming button, white rice button or brown rice button. Good thing it came with good instructions.

wyoast said:

These yeast balls have got me wondering..... I wonder if it is the yeast balls that give the rice wine that wonderful aroma and flavor? Also, thinking of doing a little experiment with wort and the yeast balls since the alcohol resistance is so high.. could possibly create a 1 of a kind SUPER High gravity brew!!!!:rockin:

Click to expand...

Interesting. Keep us updated if you try it.

wyoast said:

These yeast balls have got me wondering..... I wonder if it is the yeast balls that give the rice wine that wonderful aroma and flavor?

Click to expand...

We need to remember the yeast balls are made regionally. There are loads of them out there, and we are only getting a small sample. They even come in patty cake shapes, wrapped in colored wax paper, etc. The yeast that is rampant in that area helps contribute to these yeast balls. Or so all the articles I have read tell me. The only one I see being made in a more controlled environment is the Angel Rice Leaven. The yeast balls appear quite primitive, and I recall a photo of the 'curing area' showing bamboo mats on the ground, covered with balls, covered by screens, sitting outside in the sun. So depending upon what yeast you have, you may get sweet, sour, etc. We know now that our water amount when cooking plays a huge roll, as does the rice, the # of days before you harvest and whether you stir the sediment back in or go 'all clear'. Plus many of us are sharing/trading/buying different brands of yeast amongst ourselves to get a better comparison. (I have five different ones now, and need to find time to get things made)

My balls have flowers on them and say "Peony Brand" on them.

No flowers on my balls !!

I found some "Sushi Rice" at the regular grocery store. Normally, I've been using "Glutinous Rice" from Thailand. The Sushi Rice is working well, I ground up a yeast ball per 1/2 gal jar; and from 32 oz rice, I made up three jars (1.5 gal).

From each jar, I should get close to two 15oz bottles of wine. Haven't gotten any infections; instead, it looks like a mini white Krausen on top. What an amazing thread

Leadgolem said:

I'm not sure how large those rice yeast balls are. 2# of rice should be about 5 cups of dry rice. I've been using 1, 1/3 of an ounce, yeast ball per 1 1/2 cups of dry rice. So I would probably use 4 for the 2lb batch. I error on the high side for pitching. For the RYR I've been using 1/8th the volume of the dry rice. Or, 1 tbs per 1/2 cup of dry rice. Or for sanities sake, a scant 3/4 cup in this case.

I've also taken to cooking my rice the day before I need it, and leaving it to cool in a food grade bucket overnight. That way I know it's cool enough to pitch.

Click to expand...

That makes sense. I was thinking of doing something similar. Just dumped my batch down the drain a day or so ago, and I'm going to try again soon.

saramc said:

We need to remember the yeast balls are made regionally. There are loads of them out there, and we are only getting a small sample. They even come in patty cake shapes, wrapped in colored wax paper, etc. The yeast that is rampant in that area helps contribute to these yeast balls. Or so all the articles I have read tell me. The only one I see being made in a more controlled environment is the Angel Rice Leaven. The yeast balls appear quite primitive, and I recall a photo of the 'curing area' showing bamboo mats on the ground, covered with balls, covered by screens, sitting outside in the sun. So depending upon what yeast you have, you may get sweet, sour, etc. We know now that our water amount when cooking plays a huge roll, as does the rice, the # of days before you harvest and whether you stir the sediment back in or go 'all clear'. Plus many of us are sharing/trading/buying different brands of yeast amongst ourselves to get a better comparison. (I have five different ones now, and need to find time to get things made)

Click to expand...

Speaking of...have you had a chance to make anything out of the Angel Rice Leaven you purchased from me? I'm interested in your feedback. How about the yeast balls? I thought they were different too.

had almost decided to not try again until reading recent posts. I had used glutinous rice from asiansupermarket365.com and their Shanghai Rice Cakes (Yeast Balls)

has a very flowery asian aroma and was sweet. the final product was much too much asian flower taste for my and my wife's palate. has anyone compared these to others and can direct me to a less flowery yeast?

jak1010 said:

Speaking of...have you had a chance to make anything out of the Angel Rice Leaven you purchased from me? I'm interested in your feedback. How about the yeast balls? I thought they were different too.

Click to expand...

Have not yet used the ARL or the other yeast balls you sent, yet. Literally just started a batch using jasmine rice and the wee little pea sized yeast balls.

Haunted the asian grocer for 1+ hour today. Walked out with black rice, plantains, dried jujubes/red dates, planks of brown sugar, malt flour and mochi. They fed me a dough ball stuffed with bbq pork or something while I stared really hard at their gigantic plastic frisbee looking mats, thinking 'how much rice could be spread out on one to cool?' I have a defect. (Forgot to buy more jasmine rice, must go back, big sigh)

I love it! I think we all share that defect with you... When I walk around (or haunt) the Asian market by me, I get that look from the cashier like "Here's that guy again who buys the strangest mix of ingredients" wondering what the heck I must be doing?

I often get the feeling that they're dying to ask me but can't speak English well enough to do so.

In the back of my mind I truly believe they have a bet amongst themselves (like an office pool) about when I'll be back and what I'll buy next.

UnderThePorchBrewing said:

had almost decided to not try again until reading recent posts. I had used glutinous rice from asiansupermarket365.com and their Shanghai Rice Cakes (Yeast Balls)

has a very flowery asian aroma and was sweet. the final product was much too much asian flower taste for my and my wife's palate. has anyone compared these to others and can direct me to a less flowery yeast?

Click to expand...

I also got glutinous rice from them, and a bag of "Dried Yeast" in the form of little white balls. The bag is all in Chinese, I don't see a brand. It has little bags of 4 balls each in it. No flower aroma, and they work really well. I'm using one ball per two cups of rice.

UnderThePorchBrewing said:

had almost decided to not try again until reading recent posts. I had used glutinous rice from asiansupermarket365.com and their Shanghai Rice Cakes (Yeast Balls)

has a very flowery asian aroma and was sweet. the final product was much too much asian flower taste for my and my wife's palate. has anyone compared these to others and can direct me to a less flowery yeast?

Click to expand...

How much water did you use?

Leadgolem said:

How much water did you use?

Click to expand...

a little less than 1.5 to 1 cup rice
was in the container for 4 weeks but when sampled at 2 weeks had the same flavor.
alcohol was good level
and it did not sour at all until bottled for a month plus

UnderThePorchBrewing said:

had almost decided to not try again until reading recent posts. I had used glutinous rice from asiansupermarket365.com and their Shanghai Rice Cakes (Yeast Balls)

has a very flowery asian aroma and was sweet. the final product was much too much asian flower taste for my and my wife's palate. has anyone compared these to others and can direct me to a less flowery yeast?

Click to expand...

May want to consider:
A. Different rice. I know you used a glutinous rice, but was it jasmine?
B. Harvest sooner than 28 days & pasteurize if you plan to keep bottles hanging around. It will sour due to lacto infection otherwise.
C. jak1010 has items on eBay. Angel Rice Leaven, red yeast rice, etc.

FWIW, I have a batch using jasmine rice, rinsed until ran clear, no soaking, using 1:1 rice:water when cooking. The rice is amazing. Individual kernels, fluffy and moist, soft on the outside with the perfect firmness in center. Cannot wait to see how it turns out as wine. Fingers crossed.

Yeah, if it wasn't a water ratio thing then try another kind of rice. Here are my tasting notes from a side by side I did of several kinds of grains. These are from the batches that actually yielding something.

Basmati Rice: Moderately sweet, moderately tangy, nice mouth feel, not to thick, very stongly alcoholic. Not bad, but I think I would serve it chilled to take the edge off the tang and the alcohol.

Long Grain White Rice: Very sweet, kinda tangy, almost gravy thick. The texture makes this a little bit gross.

Jasmine Rice: Moderately sweet, slightly tangy, floral aroma, excellent mouth feel, not to thick. Not as strong as the basmati. Very Good.

Japanese sweet rice: Mildly sweet, very mildly tangy, not overtly alcoholic, nice warmth though. Aroma is more fruity. Exceptionally smooth. This is my favorite.

Click to expand...

I thought I asked this earlier, but I can't find it. Is there a way to reduce the milky portion of the wine? I find I enjoy the clear portion more.