Can I top crop this way?

Hello,

Whoops, hit the enter key....

anyways I am attempting to start having ready yeast on hand when ever I want (I brew at least once a week) but live in a very small apartment and can't devote an entire room as the designated yeast room. Also I don't really want to screw around rinsing the yeast out of my 6.5 gallon glass carboys (the hop residue and junk that sticks to the top of the head space makes me too nervous). I've concluded if I top-crop into starters and continually growing the yeast up I'll have ready yeast whenever. Now unfortunately I don't have one of those niffty orange carboy caps where I could stick a racking cane, and I have no spoon small enough to reach down into the carboy. I do have however a couple of of the little metal eye rods, like the ones used for agar plates. I have a temp controlled chest freezer in the back room (yeah the bed room) and I'm hoping that by spraying all around with some star san even before I take the airlock out the air with be clean enough. So after I sprayed, I took what I'm going to guess as about a 50 mL test tube with maybe 15-20 mL of boiled water and began "scooping" at the foamy top of the beer, which is about 30 hours or so in and bubbling nicely. I meant to keep dipping the eye rod into a measuring cup of star san which had the test tube cap in it, but must have breathed in some CO2 and forgot... I probably "scooped" ten or so times, trying to make sure I got some pure foam, some hop residue, I also tried to the best I could going down through the foam to the very top of the surface but I felt like I was just ending up washing it. I'm not really sure where the best place to collect only a couple of yeast cells is? The sterile water was around 65, like the beer, but maybe a little hotter is the temp difference going to affect the yeast more because there are only a few cells? I do mainly ales but only cuz im impatient and have no heat pad. Once I finished I quickly screwed the cap on(tight) and popped the airlock back in. Next (on top of chest freezer, cuz it means I don't even have to leave the room) I took a flask of starter wort I had just made- 1.040 with gypsum yeast nutrient and yeast energizer added- and I poured around 15-20 mL of that into the test tube (after taking a butane lighter the the mouth of the test tube) I screwed back on the cap (tight) and dipped in quickly into the star san. Hoping to sanitize the parts the wort poured on? Is my guesstimate wrong that half boiled water and half 1.040 wort and I'll have a 1.020? I"m doing all the liquid measurements by guessing because it seems more sanitary that way, but would being more precise be better? So with about 40 mL in the test tube there is a 10 mL head space. I was flipping the test tube all around (tightly capped) because I figured that would give it more surface area to aerate. Now I have the test tube up right on a closet shelf with the cap loose. Now my plan is after 2 days pour the test tube into a 500 mL flask but I'm not sure if the wort should be 1.020 again or if I should bump it up to the 1.040 yet? Two days after that 1000mL flask at 1.040, then I don't really have a bigger flask so I would end up brewing again and pitching this flask. Sorry its a little wordy but I wanted to get as much of my process in as I could think of. Any critique of my process would be greatly appreciated. Is this even going to work? I felt a little skeptical about gathering enough yeast. Do I need to start out with even smaller volumes? I know just getting and orange cap and a drip tube would probably be easier but I also feel like keeping this up will help me work with yeast. Also if you noticed, my yeast is never really going into the fridge, the biggest drop is from room temp starter to 5 gallons of 62 degree beer. Would it be better though if I placed it in the fridge during the 500mL stage so I could decant it? Will my math be off for the gravity in the 1000mL if I don't decant? Finally my last question is should my test tube gravity only be 1.020, for example this particular beer is a 1.060 amber ale with white labs 001 cal ale yeast, the yeast is in tip top shape, but because I'm collecting so few should it go into the 1.020 wort?



Thanks, Colton

Yeah, should be fine. I don't see why you have to decant it as long as you have a large enough vessel that can hold all the volume from both steps.

1.02 gravity yeast starter isn't going to grow as much yeast as your typical OG ones, but I really don't see why you couldn't just use the 1.040 one. Yeast are hardier creatures than most people think.

I agree, pitching it into starters of higher gravity won't hurt the yeast. They'll appreciate the extra sugar.

My only major concern is that you are really probably only getting a few cells if you are just skimming the foam krausen. You may have to wait quite a few days to see visible growth. If you are only getting a few dozen cells it could take 3-4 days before your initial starter is ready to pitch into a larger culture.

As far as your concerns over precision vs. sanitization, definitely err on the side of sanitary. The volumes and wort density don't matter so much when just propagating yeast.

cweinbrew9 said:

Whoops, hit the enter key....

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In future post's please hit the enter key with a lot more regularity. That paragraph is mind boggling.


_

devilishprune said:

Yeah, should be fine. I don't see why you have to decant it as long as you have a large enough vessel that can hold all the volume from both steps.

1.02 gravity yeast starter isn't going to grow as much yeast as your typical OG ones, but I really don't see why you couldn't just use the 1.040 one. Yeast are hardier creatures than most people think.

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So if I should be placing the krausen in a 1.040 then should i be making a 1.060ish wort to mix with the boiled water? And is the 1 liter flask a big enough volume/do i need to up that O.G too when mixing the 500 mL flask?



"My only major concern is that you are really probably only getting a few cells if you are just skimming the foam krausen. You may have to wait quite a few days to see visible growth. If you are only getting a few dozen cells it could take 3-4 days before your initial starter is ready to pitch into a larger culture."-dinertime

-looked at the tube this morning, about 10 hours in, I'm pretty sure I can see some new and creamy yeast, not much but some, do I still need to wait another 2-3 days or is the 500mL starter tomorrow going to be fine?




"In future post's please hit the enter key with a lot more regularity. That paragraph is mind boggling"- wildwest

-Thanks, first post too

cweinbrew9 said:

So if I should be placing the krausen in a 1.040 then should i be making a 1.060ish wort to mix with the boiled water? And is the 1 liter flask a big enough volume/do i need to up that O.G too when mixing the 500 mL flask?

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Yes, you would want to account for the dilution of adding your yeast + water mixture into the starter. A 1L flask is fine if you are going to have 500 mL of culture in it. If it ends up being any more you might want to get a larger flask.

looked at the tube this morning, about 10 hours in, I'm pretty sure I can see some new and creamy yeast, not much but some, do I still need to wait another 2-3 days or is the 500mL starter tomorrow going to be fine?

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Hard to say for sure, but it sounds like everything is going well. If you can say for certain that there are new yeast in there tomorrow, then go ahead and pitch it.

dinertime said:

Yes, you would want to account for the dilution of adding your yeast + water mixture into the starter. A 1L flask is fine if you are going to have 500 mL of culture in it. If it ends up being any more you might want to get a larger flask.




Hard to say for sure, but it sounds like everything is going well. If you can say for certain that there are new yeast in there tomorrow, then go ahead and pitch it.

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What do you mean by 500mL of culture? Also along with the dilution, in the 1000mL flask what gravity do i make the 500mL of wort thats getting added to the 500mL from the first flask?

Just checked again, i shook it this morning a little too. I can definitely see a layer of yeast on the bottom (only like an 1/8th of a mm but im sure thats more than I put in there) Also because the worts so diluted I'm pretty sure I can see a ton of yeast in suspension. I think tomorrow I'll move it to the 500mL's. Am I helping the yeast at all if ever couple of hours i tighten the cap and shake the test tube up a bit then loosen it back up? Does that help oxygenate/degass?

1/8 of a mm? You have some serious science-eyes there my friend .

Definitely shake up the yeast whenever you think about it. Yeast need oxygen to proliferate, and the dissolved CO2 just pisses them off.

I think that you are way overthinking this. You're making beer, not bridges.

Make up a starter of 500g DME and 500mL water and then just pitch your yeast into it sometime tomorrow. Shake it whenever you get a chance and then you can step that up in a couple days.

devilishprune said:

1/8 of a mm? You have some serious science-eyes there my friend .

Definitely shake up the yeast whenever you think about it. Yeast need oxygen to proliferate, and the dissolved CO2 just pisses them off.

I think that you are way overthinking this. You're making beer, not bridges.

Make up a starter of 500g DME and 500mL water and then just pitch your yeast into it sometime tomorrow. Shake it whenever you get a chance and then you can step that up in a couple days.

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Haha yeah I just started at oregon state as a fermentation science major so those chemistry labs must be getting to me....
I was curious about tightening the cap when i shook the test tube because I donno if that is letting enough new air in for the wort to absorb.

I'm gonna assume you mean 50 g of DME not 500? That would be one thick starter...


Also I was talking to my friend earlier and he is trying to get rid of a stir plate he has (not sure why its really nice) but my one concern is that it also has a heating element built in. While I haven't tested the exact measurements, it seems that the lowest setting for the heat is not off (it goes from 1-10 no zero) If I thought about it as a simmer setting will that be okay or will sitting at room temp plus this warming pad be to much? (room temp is usually around 65-75 in my apartment)

Your cap is loose the rest of the time, no? What I did before I got a stir plate was to cap, shake, open and degas, then repeat. This way you can ensure that you can get some good O2 dissolved in there.

Simmer is a boil, just not a rolling one. Are you sure it doesn't go off? In my chem labs they always have an off switch.

Congrats on brewing school, maybe you should be a little more precise then! I actually work in a lab right now, but I'm much more precise at work than I am at home just because I've realized that I don't have the equipment to be worried about it.

Yes, 50g and not 500g (been drankin').

Ha yeah maybe simmer was a bad choice, but I'm pretty sure it doesn't go off completely, its just a dial from one to ten. so i think there is a constant source of warmth-is any constant source too much?


As for the test tube, yeah its loosely fitting for the rest of the time. only tight when i shake it. I hadn't been shaking and cracking the cap to degass then shaking again, but i'll start.

Does it have a light that goes on when you turn the heat dial up? If so that would tell you when the heating element is on. Either way, I wouldn't expect it to ALWAYS be on, so the lowest setting is probably 'off'. Test it out though--at the lowest setting you should be able to touch it to tell if it is getting warm.