What is this infection, and is my beer screwed?

Hi all,
So I *think* I got my first infection (yay?) on my second batch. I *KNEW* I should have sanitized the turkey baster better when taking my gravity samples...

Anyway, someone please tell me what I have (if anything):



...and what is the best course of action? I tried a sample of it, and it tasted a little more bitter (bitterer?) than what I would expect, but I didn't throw up so it's not horrible. In any event, it's at FG now (~22 days after brewing, no secondary), and can be bottled, but *should* I bottle it? Will I get those nasty stringy things in my bottles? I'd rather not waste the 2 hours of bottling time if every bottle will be horrible, but I'm not hard up on bottles so I'm fine trying it out if someone thinks it might be OK.

Suggestions?

Also, it's obviously in a plastic bucket... is the bucket screwed?

*edit* This bucket was from a CL purchase, guy said he hasn't brewed in 10 years, all the equipment he gave me was in the bucket... in his garage... THis is the first brew I did in the bucket. Wondering if I should try re-cleaning/sanitizing it, or just tossing it...

There may be something good under there, I would try it.

That looks like a lacto infection to me. What's the gravity at? I'd want to be sure that there were no more fermentables in there as to prevent bottle bombs.

OG was between 1.04 - 1.043, gravity now is 1.012

rack from the bottom, leave the last inho or 2, so you don't suck any of it off, and bottle away. If you are at 1.012, you should be good to bottle.

Sweet mother of lord, what did you brew? Those gravity readings put you at over 30% ABV!!!

mrtrav said:

Sweet mother of lord, what did you brew? Those gravity readings put you at over 30% ABV!!!

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Fixed. That extra zero really makes a difference

ksocia said:

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I must say, That looks Naaaasty!

I'm still waiting for my first true infection. I will assume that no matter how sanitary your process is, it is an inevitablity.

mrtrav said:

Sweet mother of lord, what did you brew? Those gravity readings put you at over 30% ABV!!!

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I think he is missing a "0" right after the decimal, which would put the alcohol closer to 3.5-4% ABV. Ah, you guys beat me to it.

Bopper359 said:

That looks like a lacto infection to me.

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+1

Had lactobacillus ruin a braggot. Did some research and found out honey contains two viable bacterial cultures, one being lacto - I stupidly assumed honey to be abiotic. I also have an IPA that I made with some of that honey as well, so far so good.

Next time I pasteurize the honey.

I'd bottle it if its at 1.012 and gravity is no longer moving. As previously mentioned, leave a few inches of beer in the bucket so you don't get any of that lacto into your bottles.

If the beer tastes fine, you're good to go.

Bopper359 said:

If the beer tastes fine, you're good to go.

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And then you'll spend the next year trying to duplicate it...

Alright, so assuming this is lacto:
1. Do I throw out the bucket? Any way to clean it effectively?
2. When I bottle, is the racking cane/bottling wand/bottling bucket ruined?
3. Anything special I should do with the bottles once they're filled to reduce the chance/extent of a sour Scottish Ale?
4. Will I need more priming sugar than normal?

Thanks for everyone's help so far.

ksocia said:

Alright, so assuming this is lacto:
1. Do I throw out the bucket? Any way to clean it effectively?
2. When I bottle, is the racking cane/bottling wand/bottling bucket ruined?
3. Anything special I should do with the bottles once they're filled to reduce the chance/extent of a sour Scottish Ale?
4. Will I need more priming sugar than normal?

Thanks for everyone's help so far.

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1&2: You equipment should be fine, provided you clean it very well with a bleach solution. Also, if any of your plastic equiment has scratches in it, I'd throw them away after using them. The scratches give a place for the bacteria to hide.

3: Nothing special. Store for three weeks at seventy degrees then enjoy. Your gravity is low so there isn't really much more for the lacto to eat. This is a good thing - I wouldn't expect that you'll have growth in the bottles (anything is possible though)

4. Use the same amount of priming sugar as normal.

Bottle that sucker up and RDWHAHB!

Awesome. Thanks! I'll let you all know (in about a month) how it turned out.

Bopper359 said:

That looks like a lacto infection to me. What's the gravity at? I'd want to be sure that there were no more fermentables in there as to prevent bottle bombs.

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ksocia said:

Alright, so assuming this is lacto:
1. Do I throw out the bucket? Any way to clean it effectively?
2. When I bottle, is the racking cane/bottling wand/bottling bucket ruined?
3. Anything special I should do with the bottles once they're filled to reduce the chance/extent of a sour Scottish Ale?
4. Will I need more priming sugar than normal?

Thanks for everyone's help so far.

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Yeah, it looks like lacto to me, too. If it's lacto, it should be getting pretty sour. So, drink ASAP before it can sour on you.

I'd toss the bottling bucket, and any other plastic you used (tubing, siphon, bottling wand) but you may be ok with just a big bleach bombardment. I wouldn't chance it, though.

OK, I'll take the middle ground:
Bottle tonight or tomorrow
Drink ASAP
Toss fermenting bucket
Bleach the hell out of the bottling bucket and tubes/wand

*edit*
Just finished bottling. Looks like the infection fell back into the beer
Anyhow, it does taste a *little* sour, so I'm hoping it stays fairly mellow and I can call it a sour scottish ale (is there such a thing?)

I personally don't believe it is infected, I've had brews look similar to this after extended stays in primary. There's no telling how many I'll wager the "sour" goes away when the beer is no longer green. I also wouldn't toss any equipment, but that's just me?

Trust me. If it's got a pellicle, and it tastes a little sour, it's either lacto or something else, like pedio. It'll get worse. Much worse. So drink fast, and toss the plastic.

TOSSING NO BUENO!!!

Dude, oxyclean works wonders. Dump in more oxyclean than is necessary (trust me, it's necessary) and fill 'er all the way up with hot-a$$ water. If your tap doesn't get that hot (mine's at 150) then boil some up; the bucket is rated to well over boiling. Let it sit until it's just kinda hot, dump some of the solution out, scrub the living Bejesus out of it and rinse. Repeat if paranoid

Save the coin you'd pay for a new bucket and make a cheap batch!

carbon111 said:

+1

Had lactobacillus ruin a braggot. Did some research and found out honey contains two viable bacterial cultures, one being lacto - I stupidly assumed honey to be abiotic. I also have an IPA that I made with some of that honey as well, so far so good.

Next time I pasteurize the honey.

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Ut-oh! Would boiling the honey in water for a few minutes constitute pasteurization?? I just put 2 lbs prepared that way into my first batch, I'd hate to see it get infected.

I guess I should have listened to everyone saying to go the simple rout on my first batch - hah!

Update: Beer has been bottled for 2 weeks, has great head on it, and is a nice dark color.

...Unfortunately, my wife says it's sour (and made a nasty face). Maybe I'm immune, or can't distinguish between bitter and sour, but it just tastes really, really bitter to me. Oddly, I sort of like it... Oh well, looks like I'll have to drink the remaining 40+ bottles on my own... and fast...

greencoat said:

Ut-oh! Would boiling the honey in water for a few minutes constitute pasteurization?? I just put 2 lbs prepared that way into my first batch, I'd hate to see it get infected.

I guess I should have listened to everyone saying to go the simple rout on my first batch - hah!

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Boiling will kill the bugs so you should have no problems. RDWHAHB

Pasteurization is done at lower than boiling temperatures for a longer period of time - this helps to keep the flavors that can be destroyed in a boil.

ksocia said:

Oddly, I sort of like it... Oh well, looks like I'll have to drink the remaining 40+ bottles on my own... and fast...

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Sure, one brewer's unwanted "infection" is another brewer's paradise Maybe you're onto a new beer style! The pellicle that I'm growing on my stout looked similar to your photo: but I innoculated/infected the stout with Brettanomyces claussenii. I'm hoping for a nice blend between roasty bitterness and sourness to show through. Lambics are brewed with Lactobacillus in amungst the yeast strains....and need at least a year of conditioning (or letting the lacto really sour up the beer). You might want to hang on to a few just to see how they change over time.

Will do

Rather than post a new thread, I figured I'd bump an old one to say that I'm drinking an unintentionally sour porter that looked *exactly* like that picture. When I racked from under it, the film on top clung to the sides of the carboy, so I thought I'd left most of it behind. It re-formed in the secondary I'd racked it to, but mostly disappeared (except for a very visible white ring stuck to the glass) so I figured the beer had won the battle.

It's a bit sour and has a real thin mouthfeel, but it's drinkable. I just noticed a possibly similar film (complete with white ring-around-the-collar) on top of a mead that's been fermenting with Montrachet champagne yeast for a few months now, which really surprises me. I'm still not sure I believe it, and it might just be paranoia.

Today I was going to move a Cal Common to secondary for some light dry hopping, but after noticing the mead I'm going to spend a week evaluating and cleaning all the tubing and accessories. I've also noticed a silverfish infestation in the garage, which sucks ass because I have a lot of books I don't want to get chewed up

Sorry about the thread necromancy, but that picture was SO similar to mine that I had to vent on it. The plus side is, I've read that porters were historically sour due to bacteria inherent in the process, so I'm just pretending I'm drinking a little piece of history...