Seeves1982
Well-Known Member
What are the advantages to brewing all-grain instead of extract. The process seems alot more complicated.
Thanks,
Mike
Thanks,
Mike
All Grain Advantages?
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Making anything from scratch is more complicated than using pre-fab ingredients. This horse has been beaten to death many times over and a quick search will yield tons of reading material. However, the short answer is control. All grain gives you the ability to use any brewing ingredients a professional brewer would and the ability to determine through mashing how these ingredients ultimately become the beer. All grain does take more time and effort but in short there are virtually no limitations on what styles you can brew and how you can brew them. 
Trencher
Well-Known Member
Geekiness.
Don't forget reduced cost per batch. If you brew a lot, you will quickly recoup whatever you spend on upgrading equipment due to the price differential between extracts and grain.
Nanobru
Well-Known Member
By altering the temp of the mash, you can create different mouth feel
Different proportions of fermentables
Cheaper (after equipment of course)
spent grain makes good bread
Different proportions of fermentables
Cheaper (after equipment of course)
spent grain makes good bread
As the others said, and I agree:
Better tasting beer overall
More customizable- want more maltiness, more body, thinner body, thicker mouthfeel, etc? Easy with AG
Cheaper- buying grains and hops in bulk, most of my batches are $10-$18 for 5 gallons
Some malts must be mashed, so I can use more ingredients than an extract brewer.
Great hobby, and more time and energy to into each batch
Agreed w/ all the above...however, I think the cost difference is kinda negligible (for most) considering the extra equipment necessary AND the extra hours involved in the brewing process. I work from home, so anytime spent brewing is time I could be working (not that I'd rather be...brewing is wayyyyyyy more fun!). Basically, IMO, you won't see the cost advantage unless you brew a **** ton like some of these guys/gals do on here.
W/ that being said, I'd never ever ever go back. My beers are MUCH better and there's just an awesome satisfaction you get from crafting your own from scratch. I love having this much control over the end product.
W/ that being said, I'd never ever ever go back. My beers are MUCH better and there's just an awesome satisfaction you get from crafting your own from scratch. I love having this much control over the end product.
EdWort
Well-Known Member
Better Beer. Much better beer IMHO. Better than many commercial micros in fact.
The process is more geekier and can get as geekie as you want or you can keep it simple.
I have a couple of brew buddies that don't measure anything and throw together good beer in spite of it, but it is all grain.
The process is more geekier and can get as geekie as you want or you can keep it simple.
I have a couple of brew buddies that don't measure anything and throw together good beer in spite of it, but it is all grain.
alcibiades
Well-Known Member
my LHBS convinced me not to jump into all grain....for now...
He won me over with his arguments about all the extra equipment and the lack of consistency. Also, a pretty damn good beer can be made with quality extract and steeping grains.
Sill, I'm a geek, so I'll probably dip my toe into the all grain mash tun eventually.
He won me over with his arguments about all the extra equipment and the lack of consistency. Also, a pretty damn good beer can be made with quality extract and steeping grains.
Sill, I'm a geek, so I'll probably dip my toe into the all grain mash tun eventually.
EdWort
Well-Known Member
I beg to differ on lack of consistency. My beers are consistently the same. Of course I measure grain to the 10th of an ounce.
LBHS make much more money off extract brewers than all grain brewers, so his perspective may have a little bias to it.
HomebrewJeff
Well-Known Member
There is a certain mystery with brewing all grain vs. extract, despite everyones efforts. The reality is, it's not that hard once you understand what's going on.
1. Heat up some water.
2. Add hot water to cracked grain.
3. Wait 60 minutes.
4. Drain.
At this point you have your "extract" and it's already mixed with the water (BONUS!) It's true there are a few pieces of equipment that you need to buy, but they are readily available and verrry easy to make your self. Of course, as many of the posts on this site will indicate, you can obviously go to the extreme and get very complex (and expensive) very quickly.
"Lack of consistency" is a poor way to describe it, IMO. I prefer to see that as one of the benefits. Slight variations from batch to batch keep things interesting. Personally, if I ever got to the point where I said "Wow... this beer tastes absolutely identical to the previous 10 times I made it..." I would probably stop making that beer.
As far as a LHBS talking you into, or out of, anything... buyer beware. Not to say they are all crooked or out to get you, but you need to remember they "in the business" of selling you what they have in the store. Sometimes they will sell you something more expensive because it's more "convenient", which may be true.... but it's also pretty convenient to drive to the store and pick up a 12 pack.... but what fun is that?
Well, I'm a petite middle aged non-geek. The first 3-4 months I was here on this forum, I said things like, "I'll never go AG, but maybe I'll do PM" because I was intimidated by some of the "geekitude" things like mash ph, equipment, etc.
Let me just say that there is nothing to be intimidated about, and I NEVER have a lack of consistency. Just the opposite, in fact. Extract may vary from manufacturer to manufacturer, and so can the other ingredients. It's cheaper to buy grain in bulk, it's more consistent to use your own equipment and procedures, and it makes better beer.
Yes, you can make some award winning beers with extract. But, many of us can taste a beer and say, "oh, an extract beer" because many times the extract has a certain taste that lingers in the mouthfeel. Not that it's bad, but it's discernible. Many of us can make a beer that rivals a commercial microbrew, and oftentimes even better.
If you're happy with your beers, there is no reason to change it because we think the beer may be better. If YOU'RE wanting better beer, though, don't let your homebrew store dissuade you. It's not hard, it's just a bit more time consuming. Since it's my hobby, I don't mind the extra time.
LakeErieBrew
Well-Known Member
Over the course of the last 9 or 10 months, I have brewed beer many different ways. Extract w/ steeping, partial mash, and all-grain. All-grain is my preferred method. Does it take longer? Yes. Is it more work? Yes. Is it worth the extra effort? Yes!
Just like homemade spaghetti sauce is better than Prego, beer made from scratch is more satisfying than beer made from pre-made ingredients. Make it from scratch once, you'll taste the difference.
The cost difference is huge. 2 cases of craft beer for $20? Yes, please. If you buy in bulk, it's even cheaper.
There is also a feeling of pride that comes with all-grain brewing. Each sip is just so satisfying. All of the mystery is gone. It's just you and YOUR beer. It's so good.
I think I'll grab another.
Just like homemade spaghetti sauce is better than Prego, beer made from scratch is more satisfying than beer made from pre-made ingredients. Make it from scratch once, you'll taste the difference.
The cost difference is huge. 2 cases of craft beer for $20? Yes, please. If you buy in bulk, it's even cheaper.
There is also a feeling of pride that comes with all-grain brewing. Each sip is just so satisfying. All of the mystery is gone. It's just you and YOUR beer. It's so good.
I think I'll grab another.
alcibiades
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I'm sold!!!
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My average extract batch can run up to $40.
All grain is around $30. Using washed yeast and bulk hops now you're in the low 20s.
The beer tastes better I think. You can get creative w/ malts.
All grain is around $30. Using washed yeast and bulk hops now you're in the low 20s.
The beer tastes better I think. You can get creative w/ malts.
EdWort
Well-Known Member
Bulk Grain, Bulk Hops, and washed yeast and you are under $8. :cross:
Irie5447
Well-Known Member
Brew beer like it is supposed to be brewed! All Grain tests the skill and knowledge of a homebrewer! This is how craft brewers do it! I strive for making the best product I can and that is why I brew all grain.
Irie5447
Well-Known Member
Let me put it this way ALL the beers you buy in the stores are made "all grain" none are made extract. Do it right!
enderwig
Well-Known Member
Second that!
(Thanks for setting up that bulk buy in Feb Ed!)
With my bulk grain purchase, hops by the pound, and yeast slants, I doubt that I am ever over $10 a batch, excepting IPAs
Yes it is, but only if you make it complicated!
My all grain brews go something like this....
Mix crushed grain w/ 168 degree water (@ 1.25 qt. per lb) in cooler to achieve 152 mash temp.
Wait one hour and drain tun.
Add 185 degree water, stir, vorlaugh and drain.
repeat above step w/ enough water to fill kettle to pre boil volume.
Boil w/ hop additions, add whirfloc at 5 - 7 min.
Cool Wort and pitch yeast.
That's pretty much it...don't let the details and the numbers make you crazy. It is only as ccomplicated as you make it or want it to be!
Oh, also w/ 5 lbs of bulk hops in the freezer purchased for a song, dry yeast, and grain by the sack, quality brew at laughable prices! Say $2 a gallon.
OP
OP
Seeves1982
Well-Known Member
Thanks guys. Not ready for all grain yet, but questions where answer, much of the answers were expected, you just sometimes need to hear them for yourself. Or read them in this case. Anyway But I'll definitely switch to all grain eventually. Got 2 more questions if you don't mind. 1. Is it possible to brew all grain with the same equipment. 2. Is there a really good instructional video out there? I don't learn from a book well the first time I do something. I need a teacher and the hobby is slim pickins around here.
enderwig
Well-Known Member
philrose
Well-Known Member
there are some grains that just don't have malt extracts.
If you want to make a particular brew, there's times when its stellar via AG and "close" with extract.
btw, if you want to brew on a whim, AG+Mill+dry yeast = best option.
If you want to make a particular brew, there's times when its stellar via AG and "close" with extract.
btw, if you want to brew on a whim, AG+Mill+dry yeast = best option.
Laughing_Gnome_Invisible
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Everyone else has pretty much said it. All I will add is that the process is only slightly more complicated, but the increased number of options will make it APPEAR much more complicated. Infinite options will do that to you every time.
KillerKellers
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Yeah, it seems more complicated.. but the more I read, the easier it seems. I am doing extracts and partial mash for a few times to get the basic skills down. I fully intend on going AG by winter at the latest, but really it just comes down to brewing extracts/partials until I build my rig. This hobby has me hooked =)
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You get to sample taste the ingredients before you buy them. they kinda frown on that with extract.
Well, at least my LHBS did. He always made me buy the tins I opened in teh store. Bastid!
Well, at least my LHBS did. He always made me buy the tins I opened in teh store. Bastid!
Araxi
Well-Known Member
About the quality: I also tooled around with extract brews for many years, never really happy with my results and since I have gone Ag I make superb beers, in fact my latest recipe which is an American brown is hands down the best beer I have ever tasted anywhere. I would highly recommend Ag as it takes your brewing skills to an all new level.
Laughing_Gnome_Invisible
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I would highly recommend Ag as it takes your brewing skills to an all new level.
I kinda sorta disagree with that. I think that AG, once you have the equipment and the basic knowledge actually makes brewing GOOD beer easier.
But that's just an opinion.
golfguy819
Well-Known Member
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JMHLqnWCNjE]YouTube - Easy All Grain Brewing - Batch Sparge Method[/ame]
this video really opened my eyes to the process and how easy it could be, and was enough to make me make the switch. granted, i'm still 2 months away from doing my first brew (not by choice though).
Heineken
Well-Known Member
For me, I went all-grain for the control. With all-grain, you have control over the entire process. The rewards of brewing a great all-grain are great because its your thing. With extract, someone else has done most of the work.
DD2000GT
Well-Known Member
My switch to AG was to cure a "off" house flavor I had with almost all of my brews. I was a 10 year extract/steeping guy amd recent mini-mash. The cure for my off taste was full boils. I have an electric stove so I could only get about 2 1/2 gallons boiling. Mini-mash opened my eyes to how easy mashing your own grains really is, and the requirement for full boil just sealed the deal to switch to AG. Cost me about $100 to get up and running with my home made AG setup. I have almost recouped that cost after 5 batches.
Yes, price per batch is significant, and it does require more time than extract - not really more complicated, just more time and a bit more effort. However - the big bonus was the beer (after all - this is why we do this right?). My first AG was a Kolsch and it was AWESOME! No off taste and much cleaner. Seriously, I would buy that beer.
That is why I an AG now and sold on the process. If you still want to stay extract - that is great - but I recommend full boils. Your beer will benefit from this.
Yes, price per batch is significant, and it does require more time than extract - not really more complicated, just more time and a bit more effort. However - the big bonus was the beer (after all - this is why we do this right?). My first AG was a Kolsch and it was AWESOME! No off taste and much cleaner. Seriously, I would buy that beer.
That is why I an AG now and sold on the process. If you still want to stay extract - that is great - but I recommend full boils. Your beer will benefit from this.
EdWort
Well-Known Member
+1 I had the same experience. I did full boil extract brew over a year ago and it turned out very nice. It did not have that "extract twang" to it. I also used RO water for the extract part.
Don't for a minute let all the beautiful pictures of brew rigs sway you to think you need a rig to do all grain. You can all grain brew W/ a large boil kettle, a cooler tun, and a bucket to catch the first runnings. A two or four quart plastic pitcher will move your sparge water quite easily in under a minute.
Denny gots no rig!
http://hbd.org/clubs/cascade/public_html/dennybrew/equip1.jpg
dennybrew
Laughing_Gnome_Invisible
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+1 on that. I wasted 2 or 3 months not going AG because I thought I needed fancy gear.
RCCOLA
Well-Known Member
+100 Dennybrew style MLT rocks.
Toilet braid-$5
28qt cooler-$15 or $0 if you already have a spare
mini-keg bung-$1
6ft. 3/8 tubing-$2
3/8 inline valve-$2
turkey friar w/ 32qt. pot on sale @ sutherlands- $30
grains milled @ lhbs-$0
Total:$55 or $40 if you have a cooler
I did end up buying a grain mill to take advantage of bulk grain pricing but it isn't absolutely necessary.
KillerKellers
Well-Known Member
Damn you are convincing me..
Bob
Well-Known Member
All-grain brewing is, as the kids today say, da shizzle.
I've got a nice wet blanket here to throw on the enthusiasm, however.
Before you go dropping coin and effort on an AG setup - regardless how Frankenstein - take a look at your fermentation. If you're going to spend money, time and effort, spend it on fermentation first. What goes in to your beer means nothing if you just dump in some yeast and stick the fermenter in a corner.* Yeast are your only living ally in the brewing process. Your actions in managing them influence their performance.
If you don't have the means of growing your own yeast starters, get it. Controlling the health and amount of yeast pitched is crucial.
If you don't have the equipment to control your ferment temperature, get it. There are lots of methods, from wet t-shirts to digitally-controlled freezers.
Your beers will improve dramatically if you learn about managing fermentation and implement solid procedures. Once you get that under control, go ahead and learn about mashing.
That's what I'd do - hell, that's what I did. You'll thank me for it.
Cheers!
Bob
* Frankly, I'm never less than stunned at brewers who agonize over what grains and hops they use, their water chemistry, etc., and then just dump in a sachet of yeast and let the bucket sit in the basement. [sigh]
I've got a nice wet blanket here to throw on the enthusiasm, however.
Before you go dropping coin and effort on an AG setup - regardless how Frankenstein - take a look at your fermentation. If you're going to spend money, time and effort, spend it on fermentation first. What goes in to your beer means nothing if you just dump in some yeast and stick the fermenter in a corner.* Yeast are your only living ally in the brewing process. Your actions in managing them influence their performance.
If you don't have the means of growing your own yeast starters, get it. Controlling the health and amount of yeast pitched is crucial.
If you don't have the equipment to control your ferment temperature, get it. There are lots of methods, from wet t-shirts to digitally-controlled freezers.
Your beers will improve dramatically if you learn about managing fermentation and implement solid procedures. Once you get that under control, go ahead and learn about mashing.
That's what I'd do - hell, that's what I did. You'll thank me for it.
Cheers!
Bob
* Frankly, I'm never less than stunned at brewers who agonize over what grains and hops they use, their water chemistry, etc., and then just dump in a sachet of yeast and let the bucket sit in the basement. [sigh]
golfguy819
Well-Known Member
Mutilated1
Beer Drenched Executioner
Several Advantages I can think of.
1. Its much less expensive
2. Grain is generally but not always fresher than Extract
3. Much more flexibility with ingredients and recipes
4. Most importantly, and maybe this is my personal preference but I think a lot of people will probably agree, All Grain is just a lot more fun and satisfying
Its like the difference between cooking a great meal from scratch with fresh ingredients and opening a box of hamburger helper
1. Its much less expensive
2. Grain is generally but not always fresher than Extract
3. Much more flexibility with ingredients and recipes
4. Most importantly, and maybe this is my personal preference but I think a lot of people will probably agree, All Grain is just a lot more fun and satisfying
Its like the difference between cooking a great meal from scratch with fresh ingredients and opening a box of hamburger helper
