Heat loss from HLT to MT via pump

Hello - jsut completed a single tier single pump stand. I am experimenting with pump placement and am noticing a fair amount of heat loss from the HLT to MT, possibly b/c the rate of flow seems very slow. Here are my questions:

Will orientation of the head affect the speed?
Do most people simply increase the strike temp to compensate for the heat loss during transfer or am i missing something else?

If compensating, whre would be a good place to start? 10 -15 degrees?

How long should it take for, say 3 gallons to go from HLT to MT?

Thanks
kc

It has little to do with the pump and more to do with what you are transferring with. I ran into the same issue with my copper plumbed rig, I have about 99% complete. With the copper "cold" I lost about 7 degrees in transferring. By circulating the strike water for a minute or two before transferring to the MLT to preheat the pipes, I was able to drop the loss to 3 degrees. With foam insulation I was able to drop that to +/- 1 degree.


If you are transferring with silicon or vinyl tubing, I would not be surprised with a huge drop in temp.

Edit: If you have a good prime, orientation should not matter. To what height it has to pump the fluid, and what diameter valves, tubing etc fluid does. What kind of pump is it?

You should be able to pump 3 gallons in 3 minutes or less.

There are many factors that affect pump eff.

Dia. of plumbing
The head (rise) from the pump to the highest point in the system
Resistance on the OUT end of the pump (tubing length, fittings etc.)

I dont compensate for my temp loss during pumping persay... when I strike I heat my water to strike temp +12F, that will heat my MLT in about 5 minutes and cool to my strike temp, then I strike and mash in.

all plumbing is 1/2" silicone

distance from HLT to pump is about 2 ft, and about 4 ft from pump to MT.

All fittings are brass QD's.

The pump orientation is N S, but I've seen that people have better results with E W.

kcinpdx said:

all plumbing is 1/2" silicone

distance from HLT to pump is about 2 ft, and about 4 ft from pump to MT.

All fittings are brass QD's.

The pump orientation is N S, but I've seen that people have better results with E W.

Click to expand...

What rate are you getting pumping?

kcinpdx said:

all plumbing is 1/2" silicone

distance from HLT to pump is about 2 ft, and about 4 ft from pump to MT.

All fittings are brass QD's.

The pump orientation is N S, but I've seen that people have better results with E W.

Click to expand...

ThePol has probably the oddest working pump orientation I have ever seen, however, if you want trouble free pumping using a March 809, orient the pump below the lowest part of your system (in your case they should all be level). The "E/W" or the pump in/out oriented horizontally will probably work well for you. Just put the inlet/outlet on top.

Those pumps are not self priming, so you will want very little if any air in the pump head. If you have the pump properly oriented, when you open the valves on the MLT and the HLT (HLT to BK etc), the pump head should fill without any other interference or operator interaction. Once the pump kicks on you should have a good prime, there will be some cavitations, but it should be pumping.

If you are pumping from floor level 4 or 5 feet to either tank or if you have any restrictions (non-fully ported valves etc) you will loose some power from the pump. That is especially true on the out-side of the pump.

When I designed/built my system I set it up my plumbing so the inlet of the pump is always below the lowest point of the system. Regardless whether I am pumping from the HLT to the MLT or circulating from the BK to the whirlpool IC, the pump primes every time.

What is wrong with my orientation? My pump primes in less than 5 seconds, and only needs priming once per brew session... it aint rocket science yall.

The Pol said:

What is wrong with my orientation? My pump primes in less than 5 seconds, and only needs priming once per brew session... it aint rocket science yall.

Click to expand...

Because you are (were?) the first March I ever seen in person or online that had the pump head hanging below the motor. Of course it works, that was my point.

Unless someone is brewing in space water always seeks the lowest point and air the highest. As long as the pump is oriented in a way that allows this will it prime and pump every time.

Whiskey said:

Because you are (were?) the first March I ever seen in person or online that had the pump head hanging below the motor. Of course it works, that was my point.

Unless someone is brewing in space water always seeks the lowest point and air the highest. As long as the pump is oriented in a way that allows this will it prime and pump every time.

Click to expand...

Sorrry, I should have put a in there, I know you werent picking on me Whiskey

kcinpdx said:

Hello - jsut completed a single tier single pump stand. I am experimenting with pump placement and am noticing a fair amount of heat loss from the HLT to MT, possibly b/c the rate of flow seems very slow. Here are my questions:

Will orientation of the head affect the speed?
Do most people simply increase the strike temp to compensate for the heat loss during transfer or am i missing something else?

If compensating, whre would be a good place to start? 10 -15 degrees?

How long should it take for, say 3 gallons to go from HLT to MT?

Thanks
kc

Click to expand...

You should be able to pump 3 gallons in one minute or less. Your tubing and fittings may be causing undue restriction. You said you were using 1/2" silicone tubing with brass disconnects. You did not say whether that was the ID or OD of the tubing. If it's the OD, then your tubing may be too restrictive. Might even be too restrictive if it's the ID. QD's such as you are using fit inside the tubing and can be quite restricitve especially if they are the type with the shut off built in. It's best to keep the suction side tubing as short as possible. The suction side is more critical than the output side regarding restrictions. I use 5/8" ID braid reinforced PVC tubing and have no problems priming and I can pump quite fast. My HLT is elevated and I pump the heated water up to it at a height of about 5 ft from the pump head. It takes only a few minutes to fill it with 12 gallons. I haven't timed it, so this is an estimate, but it's pretty quick. There is very little heat loss when transferring. The vinyl and pvc tubing are poor heat conductors, so not much is lost that way in the short time it takes to make the transfer. No one ever wants to change out their hoses and fittings for larger diameter equivalents, but sometimes that may be the way to go. It was for me.

I have my pump oriented the same as POL's and never have priming or pumping issues.