LOVE controller with 240V heating element

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EarthBound

EarthBound

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What procedure would one follow to control a 240V heating element with a LOVE controller? If you could please provide an electrical schematic to help visualize the technique.

I pretty much understand how to use a PID (e.g., Auber), SSR, and heating element together. The main reason for my understanding is the vast wealth of information on this website pertaining to that concept. I was just trying to figure it out using a LOVE controller instead of a PID.

I assume the following would be true: I would use a power relay that is controlled by the LOVE, the relay would handle up to 30 amps.

Would a float switch be required to make sure the LOVE controller doesn't turn on if it calls for heat and there's not enough liquid present? If so/not, how is this all connected together and connected to the heater element.

Thank you in advance for your help. Cheers! :mug:
 
I do not see much of a difference from the Love controller and a PID except the PID output is under 32v dc and the Love controller (mine at least) will have a 120 Vac output or a 240 Vac output that will be used as the signal to the SSR. In my case I had to make sure the SSR's were capable of receiving that voltage. I am sure you can get a Love control that has a DC output.

For the float control, I think any of the control types will need that to tell them that there is not enough liquid.
 
You can wire a float switch right in the middle of the "+" relay line from the controller to the SSR. If the controller tries to turn on the SSR, but the float switch isn't closed, then the controller has no effect. When the float switch closes (there is enough liquid), then the controller's signal to the SSR will pass through the float-switch and turn on the element.
 
Thanks for the input. I don't see much difference, either. I got the TS-13010, and I would assume that's the one most homebrewers use (probably cuz of Lonnie). Yeah, I would definitely need I need to use a SSR rated for input of 120VAC and output of 240VAC, right? How does this one look (besides expensive :))?

http://www.coleparmer.com/catalog/product_view.asp?sku=8985012

It says "90 to 280 VAC input" which is what I'm looking for. But, then it says "voltage range: 24 to 330 VAC"... I'm assuming that means the output voltage?

I was pondering if I need a float switch to make this work? I assume I would not, but I saw that brewmation uses a float switch which is making me wonder. Anybody else seen these brewmation setups? They're pretty cool.
 
Walker said:
You can wire a float switch right in the middle of the "+" relay line from the controller to the SSR. If the controller tries to turn on the SSR, but the float switch isn't closed, then the controller has no effect. When the float switch closes (there is enough liquid), then the controller's signal to the SSR will pass through the float-switch and turn on the element.
Click to expand...

Thanks. That makes sense. I guess I don't NEED a float switch though, huh?

So, it seems fairly easy to hook up an element to a LOVE, contrary to what I though before the OP. That's good... :)

BTW, I crack up everytime I see your avatar. :D
 
My LOVE controller has an output of 120VAC, and I want it to turn on a 240VAC heating element. Therefore, I believe I would need a SSR that is rated for 120VAC input and 240VAC output. I believe that the SSR in post #5 would meet those specs, but I want to make sure before I go and purchase two expensive relays. What do y'all think?
 
EarthBound said:
My LOVE controller has an output of 120VAC, and I want it to turn on a 240VAC heating element. Therefore, I believe I would need a SSR that is rated for 120VAC input and 240VAC output. I believe that the SSR in post #5 would meet those specs, but I want to make sure before I go and purchase two expensive relays. What do y'all think?
Click to expand...
The title at the top of the page indicates a DC control signal, but the text below seems to indicate AC control.

If the text in blue is correct, ten this does seem like it would work for you.
 
Dude... I would call them to make sure it takes an AC control signal before you bought anything. The thing is classified under the catagory "Solid-state relays with 90 to 280 VDC control input"

I am not finding any SSRs that take an AC control signal.

My suggestion....

Do you have any old cell phone chargers lying around? If so, use the controller to provide power to the "plug" side of the charger and then use the DC signal that comes out of the charger to control a relay like this:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Solid-State-Rel...tem&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3a5a236214
 
ROFLMAO, wow, I really need to open my eyes! I must've looked at that page at least a few times and STILL overlooked where it said "DC."

Awesome! I will try out what you suggested, and post the results on this thread. Thank you! :mug:
 
EarthBound if you decide to use the TS, TX or TSS2 Love controller go with AC in (control) solid state relay, no powersupply required.

My Love TSS2 controls the SSR's. directly.

Solid_state_Relay-1.jpg



Cheers,
ClaudiusB
 
I got the TS-13010... wait a minute... OMG!!! Dude, your brewery is bad-ass!!! Condensate trap, water meter, pH probe, and so much more!

Wait, what we talking about? Oh yeah... those are some nice SSRs! Thanks for the info! Couple Q's though. Your SSRs are controlling what kind of load (not heating elements, I'm guessing)?

I found the datasheet for them here :<http://www.alliedelec.com/Images/Products/Datasheets/BM/CARLO_GAVAZZI_INC/251-0090.PDF>.

I see that they do, indeed, operate with a 120VDC input. However, the datasheet does not mention load voltage. It just specifies output in terms of current. From what I've read, I do believe it will operate a 240VAC output (heating elements). Please let me know what you think.
 
I see that they do, indeed, operate with a 120VDC input. However, the datasheet does not mention load voltage. It just specifies output in terms of current. From what I've read, I do believe it will operate a 240VAC output (heating elements).
Click to expand...

Look under type selection:
Rated operational voltage


Cheers,
ClaudiusB
 
ClaudiusB said:
Look under type selection:
Rated operational voltage


Cheers,
ClaudiusB
Click to expand...

Wow, I was just sayin' on post 10 that I need to open my eyes. Hopefully, I can take heed to my own advice after doing that a second time. :drunk:

If you could please let me know from where you acquired your SSRs. I am very interested in both options mentioned in this thread.
 
Walker said:
Dude... I would call them to make sure it takes an AC control signal before you bought anything. The thing is classified under the catagory "Solid-state relays with 90 to 280 VDC control input"

I am not finding any SSRs that take an AC control signal.

My suggestion....

Do you have any old cell phone chargers lying around? If so, use the controller to provide power to the "plug" side of the charger and then use the DC signal that comes out of the charger to control a relay like this:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Solid-State-Rel...tem&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3a5a236214
Click to expand...

The SSR that you suggested has control voltage of 3-32VDC, so that makes sense that I can use a cell phone charger. However, the SSR has a load voltage of 23-220 VDC. Doesn't a water/spa heating element run on VAC?
 
EarthBound said:
So I did some more searching and dug up this thread:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f11/br...-not-brew-magic-vs-b3-but-comparisons-163149/

I didn't read it too much, though. I was just interested to see the Brewmation website, esp. when I saw this:

http://www.brewmation.com/Elements.html

I think I'm getting warmer...
Click to expand...

Hehe---- funny you posted my review. I PICK UP MY COMPLETED BREWERY TODAY IN A FEW HOURS!!!!!!
(sorry, I'm excited... I'm gonna be a Dada:D)

I will certainly brew on it for a while before I post my recap review that I have a placemark for.

Kevin is great to work with and will do something for your specific application if you need him to, but the boxes are pretty straight forward, though.

As far as I remember, the power supply of the brewmation changes the single phase 240V source into DC before it makes it to the elements. Not sure what the standalone boxes do, but may be similar. Email him and he'll let you know.

EDIT: DID I MENTION I'M PICKING UP MY BREWERY TODAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
EarthBound said:
The SSR that you suggested has control voltage of 3-32VDC, so that makes sense that I can use a cell phone charger. However, the SSR has a load voltage of 23-220 VDC. Doesn't a water/spa heating element run on VAC?
Click to expand...

Sorry. I might have grabbed the wrong link. That ebay seller has a bunch of different SSR's. I think all of them are controlled by 3-32VDC, but some have DC load side and some have AC load side. Some come with heat sinks, some don't.

Just check that seller's other items.
 
Walker said:
Sorry. I might have grabbed the wrong link. That ebay seller has a bunch of different SSR's. I think all of them are controlled by 3-32VDC, but some have DC load side and some have AC load side. Some come with heat sinks, some don't.

Just check that seller's other items.
Click to expand...

The link you posted ended, and I went to view the relisted item, so it MAY have been changed. Really, I just wanted to make sure that heating elements run on AC, not DC. So, I'll make sure to get one that has the load voltage in terms of AC. Thanks for your help with this! :mug:

EDIT: Here's one from that seller with AC load voltage: <http://cgi.ebay.com/New-Box-Solid-State-Relay-SSR-24-480V-AC-25A-/370370191932?cmd=ViewItem&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item563bc8a23c>. It's got free shipping cuz it don't come with a heat sink, and, it's all good cuz I got some industrial heat sinks just sitting in a box that I can use.
 
SankePankey said:
Hehe---- funny you posted my review. I PICK UP MY COMPLETED BREWERY TODAY IN A FEW HOURS!!!!!!
(sorry, I'm excited... I'm gonna be a Dada:D)

I will certainly brew on it for a while before I post my recap review that I have a placemark for.

Kevin is great to work with and will do something for your specific application if you need him to, but the boxes are pretty straight forward, though.

As far as I remember, the power supply of the brewmation changes the single phase 240V source into DC before it makes it to the elements. Not sure what the standalone boxes do, but may be similar. Email him and he'll let you know.

EDIT: DID I MENTION I'M PICKING UP MY BREWERY TODAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Click to expand...


Excellent review. I was definitely interested in one of those until I realized how much progress I had with my build. I will make sure to reference the brewmation throughout my build for good ideas.

You say that 240VDC goes to the elements? I'm confused cuz I was led to believe that they run on 240VAC.

I did email him a couple months, and he provided me with a hand drawing that I will post on this thread (if he's cool with it) as soon as I get around to it (gotta start an account with a website that I can post pics on first). I'll email him about that DC thing. Thanks for the input!
 
EarthBound: yeah, that seller's listings keep ending and being relisted. Possibly it changes from VAC load to VDC load, but more likely that I just posted the wrong link. My intention was to post a link to one that took 3-32VDC for control, up to 240VAC for load, 40A rated, and came with a heatsink.

As for elements. I have never seen a DC water heater element. I'm not saying they don't exist, just that I have never seen one.
 
If you could please let me know from where you acquired your SSRs. I am very interested in both options mentioned in this thread.
Click to expand...

Jameco Electronics
Allied, Mouser, DigiKey and ebay are all good sources.

Cheers,
ClaudiusB
 
Walker said:
EarthBound: yeah, that seller's listings keep ending and being relisted. Possibly it changes from VAC load to VDC load, but more likely that I just posted the wrong link. My intention was to post a link to one that took 3-32VDC for control, up to 240VAC for load, 40A rated, and came with a heatsink.

As for elements. I have never seen a DC water heater element. I'm not saying they don't exist, just that I have never seen one.
Click to expand...


Cool... thanks for the info!

I'm not sure which option I'm gonna choose yet. It's still a litte while away before I do this - just trying to figure it all out first. I'll definitely post the results on this thread.

Time for a homebrew! Cheers! :mug:
 
Thanks for the info! Did you use those caps to smooth the voltage?
Click to expand...
No, its a varistor.
EarthBound Most Carlo Gavazzi SSr's have built in transient protection.

Cheers,
ClaudiusB
 
:off:

ClaudiusB, your PM mailbox is full! I cannot submit you a message via PM. Thanks for working on the schematic for me, I wanted to make sure I responded. Hope to hear from you soon!

Tyson.
 

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