5 gallons of raw Apple Juice... safe? First cider...

I stopped by the local apple mill yesterday and bought 5 gallons of Frozen unpasteurized and preservative free juice (5 types of juice). It's sitting on the counter thawing still this morning.

I also grabbed some Wyeast Lab's 4184 Sweet Mead activator yeast for 5 gallons.

I was thinking about tossing the juice and the yeast into a 5 gallon bucket with an airlock and seeing how it turned out. (no second ferment)

But then the wife asked.. "doesn't it need to be sterile?" and "it's not going to be sweet if it's fermented right?"

So.. do I need to bring the juice up to 170°?

The yeast I am using should keep it sweet enough, right?

When it comes time to bottle it I was going to toss in 3/4 cup of priming sugar in my bottle bucket and slap some caps on like I do with beer... then heat it up when I like the amount of bubbly. <--- that should be all I need to do, no?

If i were you i would add Campden tablets to that juice to kill any wild yeast that might be in that cider. also add some pectin enzyme that's if you want a clear cider you can get a clear cider with out it but it will a little more time. Also if you want a sweet cider you may have to back sweeten it since apple cider/juice is fully fermentable. meaning most if not all the sugar will eaten by the yeast. You should also age your cider for at least 7 months i made one 10 months ago and now it just started to taste really good.

So no need to heat pasteurize the juice before I ferment?

The yeast I bought was supposed to leave 2-3% sugar behind, I take it that's a myth then?

7 months!? .. better be damn tasty if I am going to wait that long

If you do heat pasteurize before you ferment, that will also kill any wild yeast. Just throw the juice in your brew kettle and boil it for about 45-60 minutes.

The cider yeast will leave a bit of sweetness, but not like you are probably thinking of. To make hard cider that is sweet like some of the commercial examples (Strongbow, Woodchuck, Hornsby's, etc.), you do need to backsweeten. Add 1/2 gallon of sweet juice per 5 gallons after fermentation. Skip priming sugar, the sweet juice will be plenty of sugar to carb AND sweeten, but not enough to bottle bomb since you are using cider yeast.

You can also add an unfermentable, like Splenda, to sweeten, but I'm not a fan of the results myself. Others think it tastes jsut like sugar, so maybe it's just a mental thing?

Anyway, even though your cider will peak after like 6-7 months, it will be very drinkable about 4-6 weeks after bottling. I always keg about 4 gallons and bottle a gallon to condition long term. The kegged cider is always tapped pretty quickly.

Where'd you get the cider? I'm going to pick some up at Minea farms.

I haven't done it myself yet, but you could also heat pasteurize when it gets to the desired sweetness. I think you can either just use campden tabs or heat pasteurize. Both will work and give different results. There's a thread on here somewhere about pasteurized vs not and the difference it makes in the final product. I'll try to find it.

You can check out this thread there is a lot of good info here.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f32/results-juice-yeast-sugar-experiments-83060/

No no no - don't heat it! DO NOT BOIL it.

just put in camden tablets, 1 per gallon. Wait 24hrs and pitch your yeast. Be sure to crush up the camden.

You technically don't even have to do that, but hte point of using fresh pressed unpast. juice is to get better flavor, and you will. However, when you heat it you denature it, and it will lose what you are trying to achieve.

It will ferment bone dry (no sugar) if you don't stop it.

Cider yeast will not leave residual sugar.

CidahMastah said:

No no no - don't heat it! DO NOT BOIL it.

just put in camden tablets, 1 per gallon. Wait 24hrs and pitch your yeast. Be sure to crush up the camden.

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i agree if you boil it you will get pectin haze!!!!! camden tablets are the way to go.

seabass07 said:

Where'd you get the cider? I'm going to pick some up at Minea farms.

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That is where I picked mine up at. $7.25 a gallon for the frozen stuff. I went 2 Fuji, 2 three apple blend, and 1 granny smith.

The older guy, who I think owns it, took me into his freezer and showed me around a bit.. even topped off the mini tour with a bottle of his hard cider he made back in 04' !

Nice place to buy cider, to say the least.

Seems no boil is the general consensus.. I'll pick up some tabs from Homebrew Heaven when they open tomorrow.


Thanks everyone

TopherM said:

The cider yeast will leave a bit of sweetness, but not like you are probably thinking of. To make hard cider that is sweet like some of the commercial examples (Strongbow, Woodchuck, Hornsby's, etc.), you do need to backsweeten. Add 1/2 gallon of sweet juice per 5 gallons after fermentation. Skip priming sugar, the sweet juice will be plenty of sugar to carb AND sweeten, but not enough to bottle bomb since you are using cider yeast.

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I like this idea, I don't want it to be super sweet... but not dry either
Bottle bombs are my biggest fear ( I sleep with my bottles while they age to make sure no one steals them) so it's nice to know the cider yeast won't over produce.

TopherM said:

You can also add an unfermentable, like Splenda, to sweeten, but I'm not a fan of the results myself. Others think it tastes just like sugar, so maybe it's just a mental thing?

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Who thinks it tastes just like sugar!? *Blec* all those fake sugars taste nasty to me...

+1 on fake sugars tasting like arse on my tongue.

Do you have a kegging set up? I make make a very solid draft cider doing the following (more less):

I would let ferment dry, then:
1. cold crash (to 50F or less if possible for 24-48 hours)
2. Rack it into a bottling bucket with sorbate.
3. add your sugar choice, plain sugar - frozen apple juice concentrate, AJ etc. Use your hydrometer to take a gravity reading (1.010-1.024 for dry to sweet (woodchuck is 1.024)) - adjust for temp if necessary s/b 68F. I use AJ concentrate or frozen fresh presh cider half thawed to up the sugar concentrate and apple flavors.
4. Once you have your sugar set, add your camden to your keg (crushed) and rack your cider from the bottling bucket to your keg.

Purge and force carb.


For my ciders I give them a bit more head space to start, then once they have fermented for a while I top off with more juice. I rack them at about 4-6 weeks and then don't touch them for at least another 2-3 months. They fall clear in that time, and ferment out dry and the yeast comp[acts and falls out of suspension. The cider also improves dramatically.


For my draft ciders the wife likes them a little sweet so I go to 1.024. If I have fresh pressed cider I back sweeten with that. If not, I use frozen AJ concentrate. They come out very solid and a very good draft cider.

Just a bit of advice on bottle bombs...

Go buy a hydrometer. That is the only way to know how many fermentables you are putting back into your cider. No way I would go by another measurement.

Depending on your juice used as Topher suggests, you might have higher or lower sugar based on brand etc. Just throwing in 1/2 gallon of juice to a batch is a recipe for disaster. You don't know how much sugar you are putting in there.

The Kegging setup is a work in progress as I find deals. Trying to decide between a freezer and and a fridge.. so far I have a Co2 bottle lol.

I have a hydrometer that has 3 readings.. I agree that it's a must have

wreckinball9 said on the CvilleKevin tests.. said:

the 4184 stopped at 1.010 for me. the cider was left tasting sweet and appley. i had boosted with two pounds light brown sugar so im thinking its still close to 8% abv (didnt take OG). regardless, i am wicked happy with the result and recommend the sweet mead yeast.

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It's the same yeast I have and I think I am going to try his sugar idea. If it works out well with the Minea farms juice... I'll post exactly what I did under recipes and call it "Minea's Wreckinball #9" :rockin:

CidahMastah said:

Do you have a kegging set up? I make make a very solid draft cider doing the following (more less):

I would let ferment dry, then:
1. cold crash (to 50F or less if possible for 24-48 hours)
2. Rack it into a bottling bucket with sorbate.
3. add your sugar choice, plain sugar - frozen apple juice concentrate, AJ etc. Use your hydrometer to take a gravity reading (1.010-1.024 for dry to sweet (woodchuck is 1.024)) - adjust for temp if necessary s/b 68F. I use AJ concentrate or frozen fresh fresh cider half thawed to up the sugar concentrate and apple flavors.
4. Once you have your sugar set, add your camden to your keg (crushed) and rack your cider from the bottling bucket to your keg.

Purge and force carb.


For my draft ciders the wife likes them a little sweet so I go to 1.024. If I have fresh pressed cider I back sweeten with that. If not, I use frozen AJ concentrate. They come out very solid and a very good draft cider.

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I ended up getting a kegging setup faster then I thought, never had to bottle the ciders.:rockin:

I made a Safeway juice cider and followed your instructions.. tastes great (like Spire) and worked out well! ~Thanks!

If I siphon onto sorbate do I really need to add more campden?

Kegging was definitely the way to go for keeping some sweetness in your cider. It's really difficult to bottle and carbonate it, and retain any sweetness. I have made good still cider, however, back sweetening with wine conditioner.

JasonOdd said:

I ended up getting a kegging setup faster then I thought, never had to bottle the ciders.:rockin:

I made a Safeway juice cider and followed your instructions.. tastes great (like Spire) and worked out well! ~Thanks!

If I siphon onto sorbate do I really need to add more campden?

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yes, sorbate stops yeast reproduction. Camden kills weak yeast and supresses stronger yeasts. Kind of a stun stop repro thing.

keep in mind, when you put camden in it tastes bad for a couple days. so do your taste additions, then add camden and let it sit for a few days. Usually the taste improves back to normal in 1-3 days.

good luck

Thanks CidahMastah!
That's why I didn't want to add 5 more tabs of Campden, because of the weird after taste it gave it... however like you mentioned, a few days later that flavor is gone.

p.s. I think it's Campden not camden (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Campden_tablets)

"Campden tablets are also useful in decontamination and neutralization after exposure to tear gas." ... who knew?

I heat to 170 then rapid chill to pastueize then add yeast. Boiling is bad.