From China

I'm an American living in China. I want to make mead, cider, and/or cyser. I am sure i can do it, but i need some suggestions. The biggest problem is availability of supplies. There are no home-brew shops here, and limited access to other supplies.
Sorry for the long-ish post... please bear with me.
One of the biggest things i need suggestions for is yeast. Most of the recipes and forums just say 'pitch the yeast', 'make a yeast starter', or specify exactly what kind of yeast to use, and say to use one packet. (But how much yeast is that exactly?) That would be great if i was in the US and could go buy or even mail-order these things, but I'm not. If i tried mail order yeast, i am pretty sure it would get taken by customs.
So where can i get yeast? I'm told natural yeasts for spontaneous fermentation isn't very good here, and often has molds and other bad guys with it. The only two (non-bakers) yeasts i have found is a Chinese medicine used for tummy problems, and packets of yeast used to ferment rice (not exactly Japanese rice-wine; quite a bit sweeter, and they serve it with the rice floating in it).
Other supplies i cant get are Campden tablets, any clarifying agents, any special solutions, any yeast nutrients, um... probably anything used especially for beer making, i can't get.
As for equipment, i cant get any large glass containers. I would love to own a couple 5 gal glass carboys, but no can do. Now airlocks only cost a couple bucks in the US, but no matter how cheap they are, there are none available for purchase. I cant get new bottles, caps, or a capper.

OK, so I have already started, looking at this as a nice challenge. Being new to this, i think I'm doing rather well. I have used an 18 liter plastic water bottle (like from an office water dispenser) for primary and another one for secondary. I got a plastic cinnamon container, a ballpoint pen, and a container for mechanical pencil lead refills... and yeah you're right, i made an airlock. I've used bleach water for keeping stuff clean (thats all there is).
I made apple juice myself with a juicer and a box of local apples. I tried making a starter from a package of medicinal yeast, but it didn't seem to be working... (ok maybe i was impatient). So i filled my primary fermenter half full of fresh apple juice. After 2 days, the starter wasn't doing its thing, so i heated it (not sure why, just felt like it) and added it to the apple juice, along with a few pounds of honey.
I let it sit on my kitchen floor for a few days, and it seemed nothing was happening. I gave up and told my friends i needed to find some yeast thats made for making the Chinese rice wine stuff. That evening i found some, so i bought 20 packets (8 grams each) and another box of local apples. I went home planning to dump the previous stuff and start over. It had been sitting for several days with no apparent yeast activity, so i thought id rather start over than risk having crazy bacteria all over. That night i didn't dump it, but just made a starter from the rice-wine yeast i got.
The next morning i grabbed the primary fermenter bottle, and was headed to the bathroom to dump it down the drain. I set it on my dining table, right by the window... and with the sunlight streaming through, i could see tiny bubbles streaming their way to the top!!! At the same moment, i realized that usually a kitchen is the warmest room, but my kitchen is cold... so i left it on the dining table, and pointed a heater at it. I made my airlock (up to that point i had been using a food-grade plastic sack).
Within a couple hours it was bubbling like crazy and formed about 2 inches of beautiful creme colored foam on top. ((I am puzzled... is it the natural yeast that finally kicked in, or the medicinal yeast...? I didn't boil the apple juice... Maybe the medicinal yeast acted as a yeast nutrient or something for the natural yeast...?))

Thats the story thus far.

I still need suggestions for stuff i can use. Bottles. What do i do about bottling? Yeast. How can i get or clone different yeast? What should i use as my secondary fermenter? Other additives... can i do without them and just do it the ancient, natural way? I don't mind if my cider or mead is murky. Having it thick like that is kinda desirable for me. I like sweet. I want to try still mead and cider. I also want to try adding ginger or fruit to the next batch.
I want to make cyser using only honey and apple juice. Not sure yet if i will boil either one of them.

Thanks for the help. I look forward to receiving some of your magical fermented wisdom...

Wow... haha

Umm yeast will be your biggest hurdle for sure. I honestly don't have any suggestions though. Wild fermentation can turn out great results, but if what you say is true, then you may be out of luck. Which ever yeast (medicinal or wild) that actually took off in your brew, if it turns out a good product then you should look into yeast washing. This will allow you to reuse whatever yeast did do its thing in this first batch.

Plastic fermenters are argued over a lot, while yours are water safe they are most likely not food safe. It does however sound like they are your best bet.

Bottling, go with PET. Pop bottles, anything. You will need to thoroughly clean and sanitize them before you bottle in them, but they should be good, just not for long term storing/aging. They will even allow you to carbonate if you choose to do so at some point.

Getting a sweet cider could be tricky. The problem is, you don't know your yeast's attenuation or its alcohol tolerance. Hell, you don't even know what yeast is doing the work at this point haha. This first batch will have to be your experimental. I assume you don't have anyway of checking specific gravities, so there isn't much you can do about it. Just wait for your cider to finish up, and drop completely clear. You should be able to read a newspaper through it, though this will be hindered slightly by your plastic fermenter.

I personally would say don't boil. Specifically the honey, it loses a lot of its aroma and flavor, and boiling isn't necessary. Just mix it with warm water to help with dissolving.

Best of luck though, sounds like you are a lone man with a mission.

Good luck. You have proven that it is not impossible to make things happen with limited resources. One thing I would recommend is that if you get good results with this yeast that you store and harvest it for subsequent batches.

China has a rapidly growing wine industry so it shouldn't be impossible to find a source of yeast. I'd start there and see what might be available. If you don't have any luck, look for baker's yeast - surely there's a bakery that makes bread or cakes. It isn't as good as wine yeast but likely much better than medicinal yeast.

As for airlocks, some people use balloons. They're largely frowned upon by most wine and mead makers but if airlocks aren't available, you might try them.

Use a clean cloth secured with a rope or large rubber band for covering the primary (you don't need an airlock for the first two weeks in the primary) and try the balloon for the secondary. You can initially try a small pinprick until the balloon stops trying to inflate and replace it with a balloon without the tiny hole to finish the secondary fermentation. Just be sure to keep the vessel topped up. Find a large bottle for your secondary, 4 liters if possible, and that should work just fine.

Oh yeah, i forgot to mention that i don't have a hydrometer either. It seems you guessed that, but just thought id mention.
The wine industry is growing quickly... imported wines in bottles. I went to a local high-end wine-and-cigar shop to inquire about wine yeast, and it seemed they had absolutely no idea how wine is even made. The seemed to think it was another western mixed drink as if maybe you take grape juice and mix it with vodka or something...
There is a German beer restaurant in town, and they brew their own. I asked the general manager for a starter, and he said sure. Then he came back saying they cant give or sell yeast. Not sure why, they just cant.
Not many people here are into do-it-yourself projects, so hobby stores are hard to find. A Home Depot just opened here last year... but i was told that customers are mostly rich people, and they don't DIY, they just like the store so they can pick stuff out and hire workers to do the work. oh well...
I'm making a starter with the rice-wine yeast as an experiment, and it started bubbling after 2 days.

Maybe see if there is a beer that has a yeast sediment in it, look at all the bottles. And then try to harvest that bottled yeast, build it up with sugar and there you have it, some yeast for brewing.

6fiddyv said:

Maybe see if there is a beer that has a yeast sediment in it, look at all the bottles. And then try to harvest that bottled yeast, build it up with sugar and there you have it, some yeast for brewing.

Click to expand...

Ok, am i understanding right? Save the last 2 gulps of a store bought beer (with sediment), do it up like a starter, feed it sugar or sugar syrup, and the yeast will multiply? How long do i let it sit? Do i feed it just once, or keep feeding? Is it somewhat like a friendship bread starter (feed, grow, split,... feed, grow, split,...)?
Thanks for the help. I appreciate the suggestions.
My next hurdle will be bottling. Theres no bottling equipment here. I can get imported beer that comes in flip top bottles... so if all else fails, I will try to drink a few cases of those and then problem solved, i suppose. I was reading some posts about re-using store bought mini kegs. I may try that too...

This thread should be able to help you with the yeast washing.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f13/yeast-washing-illustrated-41768/

Start drinking that import beer with flip tops as fast as you can!

edit: You need the grow yeast from a bottle thread. My bad! I'll try to find the one about someone that grew Pac Man yeast from a bottle.

edit edit: This isn't the thread I was thinking about but I think it's better.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f13/culturing-schneider-weiss-yeast-bottle-77670/index2.html

Yes, a lot of bottle conditioned ales have substantial amounts of yeast sediment in them. You can cultivate it. You have to be careful not to let it get contaminated with other yeasts and molds and bacterias. Search the forum, there are a number of useful threads on cultivating yeast from commercial beers.

Flip-top bottles work great.

what part of China are you in?

Do you really think customs would jack a pack of dry yeast? I'll send you one as a test if you want. PM your address

with as much shipping goes on i am sure you can get yeast shipped to you. know anyone in hong kong? always heard you can find anything in hong kong

pen25 said:

with as much shipping goes on i am sure you can get yeast shipped to you. know anyone in hong kong? always heard you can find anything in hong kong

Click to expand...

That's why I asked -- I was born in HK, and yes, you can find anything there!

Tusch said:

Bottling, go with PET. Pop bottles, anything. You will need to thoroughly clean and sanitize them before you bottle in them, but they should be good, just not for long term storing/aging. They will even allow you to carbonate if you choose to do so at some point.

Click to expand...

I agree, I have traveled to several Asian countries and PET bottles are used much more than here in the USA. PET bottles usually have a hard white cap and mouth piece, and they should have a #1 inside a triangle on the bottle. I have a pair of 2 liter PET bottles that previously contained pocari sweat.

AZ_IPA said:

what part of China are you in?

Do you really think customs would jack a pack of dry yeast? I'll send you one as a test if you want. PM your address

Click to expand...

I second this, I have an order of champange yeast inbound, i would send you that and an airlock. Label it as "cooking utensils", and send as a gift

Thanks, wow, I will look into this and see if customs would have a problem with it. I'm not afraid they would jack it, but i think they might try to charge an import tariff or destroy it and fine me for trying to mail a live culture.
I'll get back to you about this. Again thank you!

Ne homa bigstone: You might check the laws on making wine & such at home there; I doubt communist jails are any better than capitalist jails. If you still can't get yeast via mailorder/online, PM me with a mailing address & I'll send you some dry yeast. Regards, GF.

If you're posting this from China right now there's a good chance that you've already informed customs about you intent

ma2brew said:

If you're posting this from China right now there's a good chance that you've already informed customs about you intent

Click to expand...

Haha... not that bad, but almost.

Howdy Stone - welcome to the Red Giant...

I too am jumping the hurdles of brewing in China - in fact just came on here to check a quick recipe before getting my brew on tonight. What part of China are you in? If you are hurting for yeast, I can spare you a few packets that might get there sooner than an overseas shipment... I've muled them across the ocean, and had them shipped without any consequences (yet) so I don't think shipment will be a problem. However, protect the ones you love, and have them register a fake return address.

Sounds like you got things working with the plastic carboy - though everything I have read cautions against the water-bottles (leaching mostly scares me - and some transpiration... and who knows what those bottles are really made of...)

Where I'm at, there are heaps of both ceramic and glass wine-brewing "urns" of sizes ranging from 1 to 20 gallons - check that shop in the old neighborhood that sells fishing nets, adz-hoes, chicken-wire, sheet-metal, motorcycle tires, clocks, and big (BIG) knives. They usually have them gathering dust in the back.

I'm interested to know how it goes - good luck to ya.

Wowsers! A fellow China-going expat... I am in Zhengzhou City, Henan Province. Where are you located? Ive got some yeast that people use for making rice wine soup... its made by a company called Angel. They also make yeast for mantou. This is what i am trying for now. I just got ahold of someone that can get me a glass carboy and some other equipment from HK. I'm going to look into this lead...

I'm down in deep south Yunnan - and there is lots of Baijiu to be had here - so no shortage of fermentation options... well, that is if you like baijiu...

I abandoned the idea of beer right off, having no source for barley. I was all set to sprout and roast it myself too. Damn.

The one thing I haven't been able to improvise yet is a hydrometer... Anyone have any thoughts on how to build one? Surely it can be done... I mean, if you have anything that barely floats above water (like a small cork on the end of a heavy chopstick) you can mark it as '0'. Then, by adding sugar (controlled amounts - might need to harken back to chemistry and mols... whew) you can mark each %age as it floats to the top... Crude - but might just be crazy enough to work...

Sweet! I've got my project for the week.

Actually yes, you should be able to jerry rig at least a hyrdometer/SG Estimator. One good way to do it would be to have someone here in the states work with you. You both add controlled amounts of sugar to a measured amount of water. The guy in the states lists all his SG readings and you just mark along your device as you go.

I would love to help you out with this, as long as you create a new thread and post pictures of your device and process.

You could also just get estimated SG's from calculators and it do it that way, that would be easy enough and probably just as accurate. The only real impediment would be having something that floats and sinks consistently and balanced.

And once you're all done, I'll copy him...