Motivate me to switch over to the liquid side

So I've been brewing for around 2 years now and jumped all in with a full 3 tier system for 5 gallons, kegging, and dual stage fermentation chamber. I loved every aspect of it but eventually got a little overwhelmed with every little intricate process I added to brewing in the effort for higher quality. I've now dialed my process down into a 10-15 gallon BIAC setup both for better control, but also less cleanup/mess and easier brew day. And an aquarium chiller with built in heater constantly recirculating through the conical jacket to precise fermentation temps.

From the get go I went ahead and bought a stir starter, 2L flask, oxygenation system, etc. However, out of the 30 batches I've done, all of them but two have been with rehydrated S-05 or S-04. For the two liquid yeast beers I did a yeast starter with DME and used Ringwood and a Kolsch yeast, these were both early on in my brewing career too.

100% of my brews have been ales, and basically all IPAs, pales, porters, and stouts. Couple of wheat/adjuncty beers like the Jalapeno cream ale and Mosaic Honey Wheat. I always have great attenuation and hit my FG within a few points.

I feel like I'm missing out with all the available yeasts today, and can't help but think my beer could be missing a bit of a quality element always pitching the dry yeast - though a lot of blind taste testing I've seen on IPAs/pales/ales with dry vs liquid have been a wash so to speak.

My problem is that I have gotten lazy in that I'm used to dumping some filtered water in a bowl, microwaving, pitching at 95-100, waiting, stirring a bit, wait some more, then throw it straight into the wort and be done with it. Liquid yeast you have to plan in advance with the starter, extra equipment, then oxygenating with an aquarium pump + filter, or O2 wand and boiling the stone, etc etc. It's a lot of extra work that just doesn't seem worth it, for the type of beers I mostly brew.

I guess my question is - has anyone been in the same shoes I am in and switched to liquid and found it beneficial and never looked back? What have you gained from it? How have you dialed down your process to be as streamlined as possible? FWIW I have no interest saving yeast banks or pitching from slurries, at least not now.

Yeah, I used to use US-05 for everything, but I got really sick of the Chico yeast profile. I've branched out quite a bit, and have maybe half a dozen mason jars of yeast hanging out in my fridge ready to turn into starters. It's not a quality difference, it just gives you another variable to play with.

Maybe I'm perceiving quality by variety, since I feel a lot of my beers have the same taste profile (dur).

I am also not afraid of throwing some $ at equipment if it makes it easier, saw a few threads with pressure canning in mason jars to have wort ready at any time to throw into a starter - that would be nice.

cuda6pak said:

My problem is that I have gotten lazy in that I'm used to dumping some filtered water in a bowl, microwaving, pitching at 95-100, waiting, stirring a bit, wait some more, then throw it straight into the wort and be done with it. Liquid yeast you have to plan in advance with the starter, extra equipment, then oxygenating with an aquarium pump + filter, or O2 wand and boiling the stone, etc etc. It's a lot of extra work that just doesn't seem worth it, for the type of beers I mostly brew.

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Make a starter once, then simply collect yeast slurry and re-pitch in successive batches. It can actually be just as easy as re hydrating dry yeast.

I have gotten lazy just as you have, but find collecting, storing, and re-pitching yeast slurry very easy.....about as easy as it gets
I suggest you try it.

Oh, I simply aerate the wort with a large wire whisk in the kettle, not a huge deal or effort really.

Perhaps purchase some liquid yeast, and then store the slurry for future batches. Or, if you want to get creative....culture / harvest some yeast from a commercial beer bottle and recycle the slurry. I'ts not difficult, I did it and I'm lazy like you
cheer!

Five batches in, I'm still running on slurry from my first pack of S-05, I just pitched the last of the first generation, and I have enough 2nd for five more batches. I might get some S-04 for the ESB I want to brew, or I might just pitch the S-05 in there. I am cheap.

I have used dry yeast for two years, US-05 mostly, before I tried liquid. I wouldn't say that liquid is automatically better or worse than dry, but I found my current favorite strains are not available in dry. Wy 1217 and WLP 860 are at the moment my favorite ale and lager strains. Doesn't mean I'm not looking back, I love dry yeasts for their price and convenience and I always have at least one pack around as backup. But nothing beats having a wide variety of strains to chose from, there are so many flavors to try!

Once you got the equipment and process for liquid yeast, I'd recommend getting into banking too. Storing yeast in saline or slants isn't hard. Harvesting commercial beers is fun too.

I love using liquid yeast due to the variety of strains available. Typically I use a strain that best matches up to what I'm trying to brew: style, ABV, temperature and if it goes the adjuncts (if any). I've used different strains for each of my last four batches and couldn't be happier with how much the finished beer matches what I originally envisioned (scratch recipes).

Swap one of your IPAs our for WLP051 ferment it around 68. See if you like it.

I am with the original poster here. It sounds like people who use liquid yeast enjoy it, but is it enough of a difference to spend the extra time and money? It may just be I'm suborn and stuck in my dry yeast ways, but I love my beers so far and I use about 4 diff types of dry yeast (2 ale, 2 lager).

The difference is variety, and the cost really isnt that much more if you brew often enough to keep a liquid strain going for 4 or 5 generations.

I dont think you will see much difference if you are using US-05 versus a liquid cal ale strain and are making IPAs all the time. (even still, you would have choices in how you want your IPA to be with liquid yeasts such as conan, or wlp090) But if you are making Belgians, English bitters, czech lagers, etc, there really arent many dry yeasts to choose from, and the yeast in those styles is a bigger variable.

nzeman20 said:

I am with the original poster here. It sounds like people who use liquid yeast enjoy it, but is it enough of a difference to spend the extra time and money? It may just be I'm suborn and stuck in my dry yeast ways, but I love my beers so far and I use about 4 diff types of dry yeast (2 ale, 2 lager).

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I don't think anyone has to switch to liquid for everything, but switching to liquid for a few styles or recipes that you brew occasionally is definitely worth it. I don't know of any belgian dry strain that will do what WLP 530 or Wyeast 3711 will do. And there's a huge selection out there for tweaking or fine tuning a favorite recipe, or just looking at what a different yeast will do, because, hey, you like your [insert recipce] but just wanted a little change this time.

So my view is that "Switching" isn't really the way to think about it. The way to think about it is "switching it up once in awhile."

I find using different strains of liquid yeast add to the final flavor profile. Just try one or two batches to taste a difference.

Meh, depends on the style I'm trying to make. I still use dry yeast in a lot of my brews because it's easy, it's cheap, and I'm lazy. S-05, S-04, S-23, W-34/70, Nottingham, etc will cover a lot of brews. It seems they are coming out with more and more specialized dry strains these days as well (Belgian strains, etc).

But if I'm brewing a style that would obviously benefit from a specific liquid yeast strain that's unavailable dry, then I'll use that + a starter,

nzeman20 said:

I am with the original poster here. It sounds like people who use liquid yeast enjoy it, but is it enough of a difference to spend the extra time and money? It may just be I'm suborn and stuck in my dry yeast ways, but I love my beers so far and I use about 4 diff types of dry yeast (2 ale, 2 lager).

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Extra time and money?

I have my technique on reusing slurry down pat to the point that it is both cheaper and easier than purchasing, re-hydating and pitching dry...YMMV.

wilserbrewer said:

Extra time and money?

I have my technique on reusing slurry down pat to the point that it is both cheaper and easier than purchasing, re-hydating and pitching dry...YMMV.

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Have a how-to or post explaining your process?

I'm guessing you just create a big starter, or step up a small one, and then pitch the slurry into varius cleaned/sanitized mason jars and store them in the fridge or freezer until ready for use?

I did dry yeast for about 8 months and made the switch. Totally worth it. It can be a pain to remember to do starters beforehand but you'll get the schedule going. At any given time, I've usually got 2 or 3 flaks working on something...

Flash forward to my vegetable drawer in my fridge being entirely taken over with 20 different yeasts to pitch (mostly Belgian) sealed in small mason jars. I just save a tiny bit of each starter to keep in the fridge for next time.

The thing that made me switch was the lack of variety of dry yeasts. Belgian beers are my favorite group and sadly they are really lacking in the dry yeast department compared to liquid. The only dry yeast I'd use now is US-05. But even for stuff I'd use it in like stouts or IPAs, I'd rather be using a more interesting liquid option (conan anyone?)

philosofool said:

So my view is that "Switching" isn't really the way to think about it. The way to think about it is "switching it up once in awhile."

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Yes, it's not about one or the other, it's about one and the other.
Why choose when you can have both?

cuda6pak said:

Have a how-to or post explaining your process?

I'm guessing you just create a big starter, or step up a small one, and then pitch the slurry into varius cleaned/sanitized mason jars and store them in the fridge or freezer until ready for use?

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No not at all....I'm much too lazy for all that, the big starter is a batch of beer . Basicly you are just collecting and pitching yeast slurry from a previous batch. Details linked below.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=519995

All you are doing is collecting a mason jar of slurry from your fermenter and re-pitching to your next batch, that's it! I typically only collect one jar of slurry for my next batch, and keep only 1 or 2, sometimes 3 different slurries in my kegerator for future use. If they sit around for a long time unused, I toss them out.

You can make a starter for your first batch if you want to. You could also brew a low gravity batch where a stater is not required, or you could brew a half batch (say 2.5 gallons) of mid gravity where no starter is required.

All I do is sanitize a clean jar w/ star san, sanitize a large SS soup ladle and fill the jar directly with the slurry left in my fermenter after racking, store the jar in the fridge, pour off the top portion of beer and pitch it directly to a subsequent batch of beer. Common practice is not to exceed 5-6 generations, but YMMV, some report going many more generations without issue.

Repitching slurry is so easy and cost effective, I save and re-pitch slurries of dry yeast as well....saves a few bucks and is just as easy as hydrating a dry yeast packet...win win win

How do you properly pitch the correct amount of cells with just a slurry? Best guesstimate off calculators?

cuda6pak said:

How do you properly pitch the correct amount of cells with just a slurry? Best guesstimate off calculators?

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Best guesstimate, like everything else. I pour slurry into a mason jar with volume lines on the side and use a calculator to guess what the % of trub is. Works well enough, I usually go 4-6 gens with this method without washing. I brew every week though, so the yeast isnt sitting around. If you are a brew once every 3 months brewer, this method may not work as well.

I have used a lot of dry over the course of my three years brewing - mostly US-05. I have not had good experiences with S-04. I use US-05 for anything "clean, American", because it is super easy. For everything else, I go with liquid. But, my yeast palate is pretty limited - a Scottish ale yeast for Scotch/Scottish ale; 1469, West Yorkshire Ale, for English, and US-05 for most other stuff. But, I did just brew a batch with Conan and it really introduces something different. So, I may have a new American yeast.

Bottom line - the quality is not different between dry and liquid. You just get different profiles.

Cost - I think I am 6+ generations in on my current 1469 and I don't reuse dry. So, liquid can be cheaper for me!

Don't a lot of the best breweries just have one house strain that they use for just about everything?

This hobby can be as simple or as complicated as you wish. I've found that a bit of effort trying new methods of doing things generally pays dividends. You don't need flasks and stir-plates to make starters. I only wash yeast if I want to store it a month or so. Otherwise it's a cup of slurry in a litre of 1.040 and pitched when I want. I've left yeast under beer at room temperature for a week or so and when pitched it's fired up beautifully. As I said, it can be as simple as you want.

I'd say if you are making American pale ales, brown ales, and stouts, there's no real reason to switch. I brew a lot of Belgians, and liquid gives me a lot of options. In general, if yeast is a big part of your profile, go liquid. If you just want a clean yeast, your fine to stay with dry.

tagz said:

I'd say if you are making American pale ales, brown ales, and stouts, there's no real reason to switch. I brew a lot of Belgians, and liquid gives me a lot of options. In general, if yeast is a big part of your profile, go liquid. If you just want a clean yeast, your fine to stay with dry.

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This is well said. I did not realize that you could use liquid yeast without too much extra equipment. Thanks for all of the replies and advice.

Yeast is really important to the sensory aspects of beer. A major benefit to liquid is the wide variety of yeasts available. My personal favorites are WY1272 and a strain from a local brewery. Like taqz mentioned I use these strains as my "house stains" in most of my ales. I wash my yeast cake into 2 mason jars and pitch them directly into 2.5 gallon batches that are usually 1.05x. The 1272 is easily available but the strain from the local brewery was a one time release and it will be a sad day when its no longer viable.

Don't be afraid to experiment with liquid to find strains that you really enjoy!

Yeast is just an ingredient. Liquid or dry, use what you feel is warranted by the recipe. I use both, I harvest slurry and reuse(simple), make starters as needed (simple), rehydrate dry yeast if using one. (100F is too warm BTW), you want to check out Ferments' website for their instructions on rehydration of S-05

I enjoy the yeast management side of things. Starters are no chore. Takes all of 30 mins most of which is letting things boil unattended or letting things cool unattended.

Cost of yeast is minimal depending on how often you brew. You almost never have to buy a strain twice if you manage it correctly. There are no real additional steps on brew day with a dry or liquid yeast. With the former, rehydration is done concurrently an is ridiculously simple, for the latter the starter is made earlier in the week. Work on brew day involves the following steps.

• Open fridge a few hours prior to projected pitching time
• Take out starter and close fridge
• Place starter in kitchen/living room (somewhere at room temp)
• Allow to warm to pitching temp.
• pitch

I don't restrict my choice of malts or hops. My approach to yeast is no different. Variety is the spice of life.

As an update - I purchased a Maelstrom stir plate (highly recommend), busted out the old 2L Erlenmeyer and made a nice 1.5L starter with 3 vials of WLP008 East Coast Ale yeast and pitched into my 10 gal Pumpkin ale last weekend. Have to say it wasn't too bad and I'm going to plan to stick with it and keep trying different yeasts. Will be building a yeast bank slurry as well since I have a concal and can easily dump it in.

You went from never making a starter to buying a $130 stirplate?! Dang.

tagz said:

You went from never making a starter to buying a $130 stirplate?! Dang.

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I have a Stirstarter.com stir plate that I bought 2 years ago, which the magnet interfered with the top of the plate when any pressure was put on it (ie a full Erlenmeyer), so it's basically junk to me.

I have around $7k into my electric BIAC setup so $130 is just a drop in the bucket