Pitch Barleywine onto APA yeast cake?

Do I need to worry about washing the yeast or is the flavor from the BW going to cover anything the all Cascade APA will try to contribute?

How long was the APA fermenting? I'd say just toss it on except for the slim possibility of decaying yeast cells (autolysis?). If the APA was fermenting for a full month & you were planning on the same or longer without use of a secondary for the BW, you could get some stinky dying yeast cells. But in most cases you'll be fine just tossing it on.

The APA has been on the yeast 2 weeks and I'm not brewing the Barleywine until Nov 25th. The BW will be in primary for a month. Maybe I should wash the yeast.

I'd go for it. Around here, my impression is that autolysis is not a problem until you're in the 6+ month range.

Even if it did pick up a little Cascade aroma by the time it's done aging, no problem.

david_42 said:

Even if it did pick up a little Cascade aroma by the time it's done aging, no problem.

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That's what I was thinking.

Personally, I'd wash the yeast. Just because it's so easy to do. And it's kinda fun.

I just pitched a BW onto an All Nugget hopped APA/IPA yeast cake. Sucker took off in under 2.5 hours. I also used Nugget as the bittering in the BW so I had little concern.

I'd recommend using mr malty's pitching rate calculator to find out how much yeast slurry you need to repitch. I wouldn't be surprised if an entire yeast cake is overpitching, even for a barleywine. I think people around here are way too nonchalant about repitching onto yeast cakes. Sure, you'll definitely get awesomely rapid fermentation, but overpitching has other consequences like decreased esters. Always use proper pitching rates.

I'd wash the yeast, it only takes a few minutes.

Are there consequences other than decreased esters for pitching onto an existing cake?

I've got to say this will be my third BW using a yeast cake from a prior batch (read also STARTER) and I've never had an issue. Go with what you want. Wash it, don't wash it, dump the yeast...I know and like what works for me.

People elsewhere on the forum have mentioned some side effects they've experienced in their beers due to overpitching - hot fusel alcohols that give a burning sensation to the beer, and bitter yeast-bit are the two most common. Not everyone experiences this, though.

All I'm saying is this: we choose specific yeast for certain flavor characteristics. We say that California Ale is a clean fermenting ale producing mild fruitiness, and London ESB ale is less attenuative with a maltier emphasis. But all these descriptions are based off of proper pitching rates that yeast manufacturers recommend, that breweries follow, and that professional brewers and highly experienced homebrewers stand by without question. So do what you want, but just know that you are deliberately ignoring the knowledge and experience that professionals have gained through countless experiments.

And before you think I'm on too high of a horse (which I admit), when I started out brewing I was definitely in the "who cares?" category when it came to yeast. I fermented at whatever temperature and I never made a starter. Then I had a few terrible batches that I directly attribute to poor yeast management. Now I really pay attention to what I'm doing with my yeast. As homebrewers we get excited about this ability to pick out our malts and hops, and think that we're really creating something unique with each recipe. But what we provide beer in terms of ingredients is nothing compared to what yeast provide through fermentation. So respect 'em!

Use the calculator, and save some of that sweet cake that your yeast worked so hard to produce for some more beers!

kanzimonson said:

P I was definitely in the "who cares?" category when it came to yeast. I fermented at whatever temperature and I never made a starter. Then I had a few terrible batches that I directly attribute to poor yeast management.

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Theres a big difference between fermenting without temperature control, and pitching on a yeast cake.

I bet if I pitched an APA with nottingham, and then pitched a second batch onto the first's cake, you couldn't tell them apart in a blind testing.

A belgian? Different story.

Sounds like an awesome experiment!

I went with washing the yeast and did so yesterday. Simple and painless.

I've got two mason jars in the fridge and a nice layer of healthy yeast at the bottom of both. Thanks for the advice.

Lee