Why do I continue to have inconsistent carbonation?

Am I the only one? If you do too, please let me know. I'm really getting frustrated. I've gone from simply racking on top of my priming sugar solution to stirring very gently, and I'm still getting some that are flat, and some that are gushers.

I just opened up Bavarian Hefeweizen tonight (Ed Wort's recipe), and the thing gushed all over the place. I'm fairly certain that I'm not having infection problems, as my bottle cleaning and sanitizing process is very thorough.

Previously, I wasn't getting even carbonation in my beers. Some were flat, some were overcarbonated, and some were perfect. So I figured I'd give "stirring" a try. Well, the Bavarian Hefeweizen I stirred is all sorts of inconcistantly carbed. Yet, the Simcoe IPA that I didn't stir a few batches prior, is perfect carbed.

I don't get it...

Was the gusher refrigerated prior to opening?

SledgeH said:

Was the gusher refrigerated prior to opening?

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Yes, for 4 days.

I've had issues in the past as well. Time at room temp, adding the priming sugar after a 1/6 of the beer has been racked, gently stirring, and then refrigerating bottles as I go 3-4 weeks post bottling has cleaned up most to all of my issues.

SledgeH said:

I've had issues in the past as well. Time at room temp, adding the priming sugar after a 1/6 of the beer has been racked, gently stirring, and then refrigerating bottles as I go 3-4 weeks post bottling has cleaned up most to all of my issues.

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Do you have problems now? I hear all the time how you're supposed to drink wheat beers and hefe's "young." However, I primary all my beers for 3 weeks, obtain a stable FG, and then I bottle and leave at 70+ for 3 weeks minimum before putting my first in the fridge for 3 days minimum.

I'd say try to boil the sugar first then add it. I had the problem till I did this.

tom_gamer said:

I'd say try to boil the sugar first then add it. I had the problem till I did this.

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I boil my sugar in spring water for 5 minutes, then let it cool and pour it through a sanitized funnel into my bottling jug. I swirl it all around inside the jug, then rack on top of it. The I stir with my sanitized bottling wand very gently, trying to "bring up" the priming sugar water through the entire batch.

Are you dissolving the sugar in water prior to priming, or just adding the sugar directly to the beer? If the sugar is dissolved in water and gently stirred into the beer, then the carbonation should be very even

JeffoC6 said:

I boil my sugar in spring water for 5 minutes, then let it cool and pour it through a sanitized funnel into my bottling jug. I swirl it all around inside the jug, then rack on top of it. The I stir with my sanitized bottling wand very gently, trying to "bring up" the priming sugar water through the entire batch.

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I hate to say it but I can't help you then.

My steps are as follows:
Boil tap water in tea kettle
Put all priming sugar in pryrex measuring cup
Fill boiling water up to sugar line
Cool in fridge
Simply dump in bottling bucket without stirring.
Rack on top of sugar water
Fill bottles
Enjoy evenly carbed beer.

You're bottling out of a carboy or better bottle instead of a bottling bucket?

tom_gamer said:

I hate to say it but I can't help you then.

My steps are as follows:
Boil tap water in tea kettle
Put all priming sugar in pryrex measuring cup
Fill boiling water up to sugar line
Cool in fridge
Simply dump in bottling bucket without stirring.
Rack on top of sugar water
Fill bottles
Enjoy evenly carbed beer.

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Here's my process:

Soak bottles in B-Brite and Hot water solution for minimum of 1 hour.

Cold rinse

Fill each bottle with about 1/4 cup of star san

Rack my cold crashed beer onto a mixture of boiled spring water and calculated priming sugar

Stir gently with sanitized bottling wand

Racking from my bottling jug to sanitized bottles, pouring out the star san as soon as I get to that bottle.

Putting sanitized caps loosely on each bottle right after bottling

Keeping them at 70+ for 3 weeks and checking 1 after 2 days in the fridge.

SledgeH said:

You're bottling out of a carboy or better bottle instead of a bottling bucket?

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I rack from my carboy to another carboy that's been sanitized and cleaned. Then I rack from that carboy to my bottles.

I have problems currently with a strawberry wheat. I transferred so so poorly due to so much pulp and trying to strain with a hop bag. Some are good some are near bomb material. You're funnel and swirl methods is adding oxygen to the process, but I don't understand how that would affect carbonation.

You've made a ton of beer, have you tried to break the process down? Say bottle prime a half batch and see how those come out? Also are youpriming to style or adding a full 5Oz of sugar to each batch?

SledgeH said:

You've made a ton of beer, have you tried to break the process down? Say bottle prime a half batch and see how those come out? Also are youpriming to style or adding a full 5Oz of sugar to each batch?

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I'm priming to style. I don't really know what you mean by "breaking my process down." That's kind of why I'm here right now, trying to get some help.

I don't know what I can possibly be doing wrong.

By the way, I'm only doing 1 gallon batches.

What I mean is for your next batch, bottle prime everything instead. Coopers carbonation drops or something like that. If carbs up with no problem we know the issue is with your priming technique or method. If it doesn't, then there are other issues. Plus bottle priming a 1 gal batch would take less time than the priming solution.

A couple things I'll ask:

1) How long are you leaving in the primary?

2) Are you using software that corrects for the amount of residual CO2 depending upon temperature?

3) Are you measuring or weighing your priming sugar?

All of those things will determine the amount of carbonation, as will the gravity of the beer. Really high gravity beers can take a lot longer to carbonate.

Get a bottling bucket. Pour the dissolved sugar on the bottom, rack the beer on it and then bottle. That's how I do it and haven't had a problem.

SledgeH said:

What I mean is for your next batch, bottle prime everything instead. Coopers carbonation drops or something like that. If carbs up with no problem we know the issue is with your priming technique or method. If it doesn't, then there are other issues. Plus bottle priming a 1 gal batch would take less time than the priming solution.

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Not a bad idea. How many coopers carb drops would you recommend for each bottle? I get about 9 bottles (sometimes 10) per batch.

gmcastil said:

A couple things I'll ask:

1) How long are you leaving in the primary?

2) Are you using software that corrects for the amount of residual CO2 depending upon temperature?

3) Are you measuring or weighing your priming sugar?

All of those things will determine the amount of carbonation, as will the gravity of the beer. Really high gravity beers can take a lot longer to carbonate.

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1) I'm leaving everything in the primary for 3 weeks. On day 19 I take a FG reading. On day 21 I take a FG. If it matches, I cold crash and then bottle.

2) I use the tastybrew calcuator. I input my 1 gallon batches as .85 total volume do to trub loss, I select my "style" and then I input the highest temperature the beer achieved during the primary.

3) I have a little ramican (sp?) that weighs 1.0 oz's. I weight the priming sugar in that. Example, if I need .5 oz's, I add until I'm at 1.5 oz. I then put my spring water into a pot, turn the heat on, swirl in the priming sugar and bring to boil for 5 minutes.

peter78 said:

Get a bottling bucket. Pour the dissolved sugar on the bottom, rack the beer on it and then bottle. That's how I do it and haven't had a problem.

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I have a bottling "jug." I only do 1 gallon batches. I rack my cold crashed beer from my primary into my bottling jug that has the dissolved priming sugar solution already in it.

There are a few different brands. Coopers are 1 per 12Oz. still read the instructions of course...

Try the carb drops then. That sounds strange. Or maybe give them more time...

JeffoC6 said:

2) I use the tastybrew calcuator. I input my 1 gallon batches as .85 total volume do to trub loss, I select my "style" and then I input the highest temperature the beer achieved during the primary.

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This might be your problem. Your volume should be the actual volume you are bottling with. If you're off by 0.05 gallons in a 5 gallon batch, that normally wouldn't matter. But, since you're doing 1 gallon batches, the variance between that number and the actual bottling volume is significant.

I suspect this might actually be the cause of your variation. You are drastically underpriming and overpriming, depending upon whether you are above or below your that 0.85 gallon bottling volume.

Also, for the temperature, you should use the temperature at bottling. Solubility of a gas is dependent upon the temperature of the liquid, so to determine how much CO2 is already dissolved in your beer at bottling, you need to know the temperature at bottling.

Hope this helps.

I'm thinking that because I'm only doing 1 gallon batches, and my actual final volume is more like, .85 gallons, that any "mistakes" are being magnified due to the small amount that I'm working with. However, how is it possible that 2 of the IPAs that I've brewed, using the same process, have carbed up absolutely beautifully and consistently? Yet, a Hefeweizen that I did the exact same thing with, and even STIRRED, was not even close to being consistently carbed? Ugh.

gmcastil said:

This might be your problem. Your volume should be the actual volume you are bottling with. If you're off by 0.05 gallons in a 5 gallon batch, that normally wouldn't matter. But, since you're doing 1 gallon batches, the variance between that number and the actual bottling volume is significant.

I suspect this might actually be the cause of your variation. You are drastically underpriming and overpriming, depending upon whether you are above or below your that 0.85 gallon bottling volume.

Also, for the temperature, you should use the temperature at bottling. Solubility of a gas is dependent upon the temperature of the liquid, so to determine how much CO2 is already dissolved in your beer at bottling, you need to know the temperature at bottling.

Hope this helps.

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Thanks for the post. I do use the actual volume that I'm bottling. Example: I always get 9 beers out of my batches. 9 x 12 oz = 108 oz....108 oz = .84 gallons.

Also, I read in several places that you're supposed to use the warmest temperature the beer achieved during primary fermentation. Is that not correct?

You're doing a 3 week primary right? Why the cold crash? Are they still not as clear add you'd like? Don't cold crash the next batch. there is a slight chance you're knocking too much yeast out of suspension to get everything carbed up in a 3 week span. do you keep your bottles in fill order? Do the first few over carb, last few under carb?

SledgeH said:

You're doing a 3 week primary right? Why the cold crash? Are they still not as clear add you'd like? Don't cold crash the next batch. there is a slight chance you're knocking too much yeast out of suspension to get everything carbed up in a 3 week span. do you keep your bottles in fill order? Do the first few over carb, last few under carb?

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I'm doing 3 weeks primary, yes. I'm cold crashing because I thought that was the right thing to do? I don't really care about clarity. I mean, my beers are nice looking, yes. I always atributed that to cold crashing though.

Interesting point about dropping the yeast out. Maybe because I'm on such a small scale this could be happening?

I don't know what you mean by "fill order."

I noticed that the Bavarian Hefe's last bottle, which was only 3/4 of the way full, was INSANELY sweet and more towards the flat side.

I understand what you're saying, but it's hard to come to grips with why some of the beers I've made have absolutely perfect carbonation with the process I'm using, while others simply are not.

Another suggestion, instead of those bottling tabs, is to use one of those flip-top growlers. If I were brewing 1 gallon batches, that is totally how I would bottle. I'd use two of them, sanitize them, add half my priming sugar to each, and then just rack it straight out of the fermenter into each of them and seal them up.

http://www.northernbrewer.com/shop/2-liter-growler-standard-handle.html

gmcastil said:

Another suggestion, instead of those bottling tabs, is to use one of those flip-top growlers. If I were brewing 1 gallon batches, that is totally how I would bottle. I'd use two of them, sanitize them, add half my priming sugar to each, and then just rack it straight out of the fermenter into each of them and seal them up.

http://www.northernbrewer.com/shop/2-liter-growler-standard-handle.html

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Yea, I but I like to share. I give a few bottles to my dad and 1 to my beer geek cousin.

JeffoC6 said:

Thanks for the post. I do use the actual volume that I'm bottling. Example: I always get 9 beers out of my batches. 9 x 12 oz = 108 oz....108 oz = .84 gallons.

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Ok. So long as you're sure this is correct - I would measure every time, since your losses to trub and hops are going to vary and like I said, a little variance is going to have a big difference in the final concentration of sugar in the solution.

Also, I read in several places that you're supposed to use the warmest temperature the beer achieved during primary fermentation. Is that not correct?

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I'm completely open to being corrected, but from a physical standpoint, this doesn't make any sense to me. The solubility of a gas in a solution is determined by the partial pressure of the atmosphere above it and the temperature of the solution. For most gases, including CO2, an increase in temperature will decrease the solubility of the gas. By the time you get around to bottling, the solution is in equilibrium with the atmosphere above it, so the amount of CO2 dissolved in the solution is going to be dependent upon the temperature of the beer at that moment.

I could be wrong though - it's possible that since the bulk of CO2 is produced during the early parts of fermentation and most of it escapes through the airlock, so there isn't very much to actually dissolve back into solution.

Now that I think about it, that may not be right either, since the airlock and the headspace might guarantee that the partial pressure of CO2 above the solution is always 1 atm, regardless of how much CO2 is being produced by the wort. The more I think about it, the more I think that this is correct. I think the partial pressure of CO2 above the gas is always 1 atm, so the solubility of CO2 will be a function of temperature alone and thus it makes sense to use the temperature of the beer at bottling.

Sorry...I've been studying for the MCAT for the past 6 weeks, so forgive me for the treatise on solubility.

Sorry, but the ONLY questions that are important, are the ones that noone seemed to ask. How long are you b ottle conditioning them for, and at what temps?

Whenever someone says they have inconsistant carbonation it's really that you don't have a carbonation problem, you just have a patience one.

The 3 weeks at 70 degrees, that we recommend is the minimum time it takes for average gravity beers to carbonate and condition. Higher grav beers take longer.

Stouts and porters have taken me between 6 and 8 weeks to carb up..I have a 1.090 Belgian strong that took three months to carb up.

And just because a beer is carbed doesn't mean it still doesn't taste like a$$ and need more time for the off flavors to condition out. You have green beer.

Temp and gravity are the two factors that contribute to the time it takes to carb beer. But if a beer's not ready yet, or seems low carbed, and you added the right amount of sugar to it, then it's not stalled, it's just not time yet.

Everything you need to know about carbing and conditioning, can be found here Of Patience and Bottle Conditioning. With emphasis on the word, "patience."

You may have just caught the beers as they were individually starting to pop, and happened to have grabbed the first ones that actually did carb, and assumed the rest already did, when they hadn't yet.

Inconsistant carbonation, usually simply means that they are not ready yet. If you had opened them a week later, or even two, you never would have noticed. Each one is it's own little microcosm, and although generally the should come up at the same time, it's not an automatic switch, and they all pop on.

A tiny difference in temps between bottles in storage can affect the yeasties, speed them up or slow them down. Like if you store them in a closet against a warm wall, the beers closest to the heat source may be a tad warmer than those further way, so thy may carb/condition at slightly different rates. I usually store a batch in 2 seperate locations in my loft 1 case in my bedroom which is a little warmer, and the other in the closet in the lving room, which being in a larger space is a tad cooler, at least according to the thermostat next to that closet. It can be 5-10 degrees warmer in my bedroom. So I usually start with that case at three weeks. Giving the other half a little more time.

Bottom line, it's not that the sugar's not mixed, it's just that they all haven't come up to full carb yet....Three weeks is not the magic number for finality, it's the minimum time it takes....

"Yeast dropping" or whatever the theory is, is really silly. If a yeast goes dormant or drops, (like it always does at the end of primary fermentation for most beers) the minute you add fresh fermentables it's going to wake back up and go hunting.

Revvy said:

The 3 weeks at 70 degrees, that we recommend is the minimum time it takes for average gravity beers to carbonate and condition. Higher grav beers take longer.

Stouts and porters have taken me between 6 and 8 weeks to carb up..I have a 1.090 Belgian strong that took three months to carb up.

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I was sure that I had mentioned this.

Thanks Revvy. I read your same post several times over the last few months. For example, I bottled a stout on 2/27/12. I waited 3 weeks, checked. Flat. I then waited 5 more weeks. Checked. Flat. I then waited 2 more weeks. Checked. Flat. It's now June 28th and I've got 2 left (all the rest have been flat)..The last one I tried was 3 days ago...Flat.

Are you saying I need to wait upwards up 4 months for a 1.065 FG stout? That just doesn't seem right...Wouldn't you agree?

JeffoC6 said:

Are you saying I need to wait upwards up 4 months for a 1.065 FG stout? That just doesn't seem right...Wouldn't you agree?

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Your finishing gravity is at 1.065?! I'll assume you meant your terminal gravity.

I've certainly had to wait that long. I have several Belgian ales that have sat at 70 for up to six months and still aren't really carbed yet.

But you didn't give us that information...it has to be ruled out since 99% of these posts when you find that answer out, is usually under three weeks or under 70 degrees.

Info like that is key...

gmcastil said:

Your finishing gravity is at 1.065?! I'll assume you meant your terminal gravity.

I've certainly had to wait that long. I have several Belgian ales that have sat at 70 for up to six months and still aren't really carbed yet.

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Finishing gravity and terminal gravity mean the same thing (terminal more or less means end).

I'll assume you meant starting gravity

Revvy said:

But you didn't give us that information...it has to be ruled out since 99% of these posts when you find that answer out, is usually under three weeks or under 70 degrees.

Info like that is key...

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Not sure what you're saying.

I have all of my brews diary'd out to the day. I can copy and paste anything you'd like to review.

The thing then is that you to tells us what you're doing. Step by step at bottling and beyond. Everything else is irrevelent. It doesn't matter whehter you primaried three weeks, secondaried, or bottled the minute fermentation halted...all that is wiped clean on bottling day. None of that in most cases is relevent.

How are you delivering piming sugar to beer? What kind of bottles are you using? What Temps are you Storing them at?

For 99.9% of beers, bottling if done right (which isn't hard) is foolproof. You add sugar, you cap it, the yeast eats it and farts co2, which goes into the beer over a period of about 3 weeks if the beer is kept above 70 degrees. That's it....For all of gmcastil's mcat addled overly complex breakdown (which was great by the way) it really is a simple process.

So if it's not working, then usually the brewer is doing something wrong...or the yeast is exhausted if it's a big beer.

But if it's a normal beer the reasons are pretty simple if it's not carbed or inconssitently carbed..

1)The brewer is impatient (you ruled that out apparantly)
2)The beer is too cold for the yeast to work (I'm assuming you have kept them above 70 for this time)
3) The method of delivering beer and sugar to bottles is faulty. (Bulk Priming and boiling prevents this, as does adding priming tabs)
4) You're priming with something other than sugar (like maltodextrine or lactose)
5) You have capping issues.
6) You somehow have killed the yeast (but if you have inconcistant carbing, then that's incongruous.)

There really is a limited range of conditions that can cause a nearly foolproof process to fail...abd beyond those mentioned above I can't think of. So Somewhere on this list is your problem.

And I'm betting it's number 3

JeffoC6 said:

Not sure what you're saying.

I have all of my brews diary'd out to the day. I can copy and paste anything you'd like to review.

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I meant that in your initial post or subsequesnt ones, you never told us how long your beers were in the bottles for and at what temps you stored them at.

The majority of these types of threads, the minute we ask them these questions, 99% of the time on here we find out that the person didn't wait long enough...So that's the info most of us look at first, before going deeper. Nowhere until I asked did you tell us that info....