Venting about LME

I switched to AG a while ago but tonight I was in the mood to do a quick brew. I used a 4 lb container of Wheat LME in a partial mash.

This is my gripe. I was doing a Belgian Wit and I used only grains until flameout. I had a beautiful very light, very fragrant, wort going and then I add the LME and bam, suddenly I am working with an Amber Wit.

This drives me crazy and was one of my primary motivations for moving to AG.

This weekend I served a Blue Moon clone (my last Extract plus Steep) that tasted delicious but was darker than Killians.

I understand the causes behind extracts being so dark but I can not understand why a better wheel has not been invented. It seems as though freeze drying methods used in coffee to remove liquid could be utilized here. If not, there should be other ways to accomplish the task. Am I wrong?

Rant over.

I agree but you and I can not change nature or much else for that matter. Just be glad that you finally found out how to brew lighter and better brews by changing to all grain. Your best brews are yet to come.

My 2nd batch which I have only 3 bottles left was a Blue Moon clone that was extract. It came out orangey. I'll try to remember to take a picture of it and let you compare to your color.

Am I wrong?

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"no your not wrong your just an A-hole" -Jeffery Lebowski

I just brewed my first partial mash last night that called for DME, but my LHBS guy said he doesn't carry it because of how messy it is... So I used LME. If I want to do a lighter style in the future can I use DME or is the only option all grain?

blue800 said:

"no your not wrong your just an A-hole" -Jeffery Lebowski

I just brewed my first partial mash last night that called for DME, but my LHBS guy said he doesn't carry it because of how messy it is... So I used LME. If I want to do a lighter style in the future can I use DME or is the only option all grain?

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Yes, light or extra light DME will give you a lighter colored beer. I think your LHBS is full of crap about the messy part too. Order some online and give it a try.

Nurmey said:

Yes, light or extra light DME will give you a lighter colored beer. I think your LHBS is full of crap about the messy part too. Order some online and give it a try.

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+1. I think LME is WAY messier then DME.

dontman said:

I had a beautiful very light, very fragrant, wort going and then I add the LME and bam, suddenly I am working with an Amber Wit.

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I dunno, I've got an extract hefeweizen in the fermenter right now, and the hydro samples are all yellow-gold, at the darkest. 1# of Breiss wheat LME added at 60 minutes, 6# at 15 minutes. It could be lighter, but no way, no how could you describe it as "amber."

It all depends on how thick of a column of wort you're looking through. Sure, in a pot or carboy, it's going to look dark. In a thin hydrometer test tube, it will look light. The real judge is when you pour the beer into a pint (or other style appropriate) glass.

Bobby_M said:

It all depends on how thick of a column of wort you're looking through. Sure, in a pot or carboy, it's going to look dark. In a thin hydrometer test tube, it will look light. The real judge is when you pour the beer into a pint (or other style appropriate) glass.

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Oh, yeah, I should note that I pour my hydro samples into my Sam Adams sample glass and stick them in the fridge for a few minutes before tasting. So I'm pretty sure the color on this brew will be plenty light.

It does look amber in the fermenter, of course.

uncleozzy said:

I dunno, I've got an extract hefeweizen in the fermenter right now, and the hydro samples are all yellow-gold, at the darkest. 1# of Breiss wheat LME added at 60 minutes, 6# at 15 minutes. It could be lighter, but no way, no how could you describe it as "amber."

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Are we actually splitting hairs on "exactly" how much darker LME makes beers. My point is that it adds a point or two of SRM for every pound of LME I use.

On Browns and Porters and Stouts and a lot of beers frankly it does not really matter but on the area where I make most of my beers, Pales, Creams, Blondes, and Pilsners it does make a difference. It offends my sensibility.

I know I am not alone here. Chill haze does not affect flavor but a lot of people go to a lot of trouble to eliminate it.

So to answer your question. For my style, (Belgian Wit) I would hope for maybe 4 SRM and instead I have a beer that is probably an 8 or 9. Is this really a problem, no, but I am doing AG to make it go away and won't have it again.

dontman said:

Are we actually splitting hairs on "exactly" how much darker LME makes beers.

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That wasn't the intention, no. All I'm saying is that my late-extract, LME wheat beer is actually pretty damn yellow; not out-of-style dark at all. I was expecting it to be darker, frankly; I'm a little surprised.

Well, DME is known to yield lighter results, but the final determination for me is the taste. If it tastes good, then you are good. If you are looking to get the appearance to what the style generally calls for, then you might HAVE to use DME. (I prefer DME anyway).

And, you LHBS may not like the way the bags of DME handle, but when brewing, DME is much easier and less messy then LME IMO. Frankly I find it odd that he is not offering DME, and I would consider purchasing online if he is unwilling to offer a basic ingredient like that.

Pivzavod said:

My 2nd batch which I have only 3 bottles left was a Blue Moon clone that was extract. It came out orangey. I'll try to remember to take a picture of it and let you compare to your color.

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That looks very close to my first Wit. Indeedy.

So thats not too bad, I thought yours was darker. This is my 2nd batch of which I have 2 bottles left but another Witbier will be brewed, maybe one of the next kits I order. Next one will be with liquid yeast and I'll crush the coriander (my instructions didnt mention it).

Pivzavod said:

So thats not too bad, I thought yours was darker. This is my 2nd batch of which I have 2 bottles left but another Witbier will be brewed, maybe one of the next kits I order. Next one will be with liquid yeast and I'll crush the coriander (my instructions didnt mention it).

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On second glance my first batch is darker. My second batch (the one I mention here was PM with 4 lbs of extract and 5 bs of grain,) ahould be lighter. I expect it to come out okay in color but not quite as pale as hoegarden or blue moon.

I use a coffee grinder to crush my coriander and I use the WL Belgian Wit, 400 or 430, I forget the exact number.

BTW I love this beer. It is phenomenal.

My Wit is def lighter than that. 3 lbs of extra light DME, and 3 pounds of Light wheat DME, basically. I also did late extract additions so that the wort doesn't have a chance to caramelize.

Still looks like a very drinkable beer to me!!!

I did flameout additions of all LME and DME when I used them. I don't use them anymore, even for my starters.

Maybe a noob question, but why the obsession over color?

I mean, if it tastes good and drinks good... I wouldn't care if it were purple.

I've personally never looked at a glass of really good tasting beer and said "man, I sure do wish you were a few shades lighter".

Just curious.

it's an effort to produce a specific beer to a certain standard for its particular style....and some of us are just anal

onejdn said:

it's an effort to produce a specific beer to a certain standard for its particular style....and some of us are just anal

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It really is just this. When I set out to make a beer these days, I actually pick the style first, then I begin to craft the recipe. I get quite obsessive. I have a Pilsner in a carboy in the basement right now. I wouldn't even attempt it until I was able to lager and able to do all grain (for the color.) I also did a lot of research to get the water right for a Bohemian Pilser.

I am a coffee judge and taster as a sideline and when I am making beer I think like a judge.