Can I use a new 5 gallon plastic bucket from Home depot ??

ok so the Depot has 5 gallon buckets with lids for like $3....this is alot less than the $15 my LHBS sells the 6.5 gallon ones for...

My question is. Will it be ok to use these for fermentation? I would obviously thoroughly sanitize it like usual. But would I have to do any extra steps since its not necessarily a "food grade bucket" ??

If it's not food grade, then DO NOT use it. Unless you like drinking petro-chemicals that leach out of plastic. If it has a #1 or #2 on the bottom, it's good, but I don't think those do, I believe it's a #7, so no good. You can get one at a restaurant supply store, but the lid won't be drilled or have a bung for the airlock.

BarleyWater said:

If it's not food grade, then DO NOT use it. Unless you like drinking petro-chemicals that leach out of plastic. If it has a #1 or #2 on the bottom, it's good, but I don't think those do, I believe it's a #7, so no good. You can get one at a restaurant supply store, but the lid won't be drilled or have a bung for the airlock.

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oh ok cool.

So now I just have to find a restaurant supply store north of Boston

Another thing I didn't think of. The Home Depot bucket may not be completely smooth on the inside, and any crevice or imperfection in the plastic could be a place to harbor bacteria. Do yourself a favor and get a good bucket you know will be safe.

I remember a while back someone found some food grade buckets at Wally World.

illnastyimpreza said:

So now I just have to find a restaurant supply store north of Boston

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Google Ace Mart, you may one there.

You will need head room in the bucket so a 5 gallon may not be a wise choice for a 5 gallon batch of beer.

Professor Frink said:

I remember a while back someone found some food grade buckets at Wally World.

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no **** huh ? I'll definatly check that one out... chances are they where DIRT cheap

BarleyWater said:

Google Ace Mart, you may one there.

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looks like thats a Texas only thang

Hit up a grocery store with a bakery - they get icing in buckets (food grade of course) and are usually happy to get rid of them. They seal well and have an o-ring in the lid. All it takes it to drill the right size hole in the lid and get an 85c stopper and a 2.00 airlock and voila, a fermenter. I've made a few so far, as well as just having other clean buckets for bottling, transferring, etc.

illnastyimpreza said:

So now I just have to find a restaurant supply store north of Boston

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or find a bakery...truck stop restaurant, or home style diner.
They all get everything from pickels to butter in food grade buckets. They'll gladly save for you.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f11/5-gallon-buckets-lowes-ok-54937/
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f13/starter-1-5-gallon-plastic-bucket-79168/
Bucket fermenter - Home Brewing Wiki

For further reference.

Good Luck and Good Brewing.

BigKahuna said:

pickles

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Do yourself a favor and skip the Pickle buckets...trust me.

BigKahuna said:

or find a bakery...truck stop restaurant, or home style diner.
They all get everything from pickels to butter in food grade buckets. They'll gladly save for you.

[u..

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I'll definatly check that out... maybee they'll even give me a couple for free

culaslucas said:

Do yourself a favor and skip the Pickle buckets...trust me.

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I can't immagine why ???

culaslucas said:

Do yourself a favor and skip the Pickle buckets...trust me.

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I guess I should have clairified....DON"T FERMENT IN PICLE BUCKETS! They are great for holding cleaning water, and storage of other junk though.

Like mentioned, Go upsize from 5gal. My fermentors are 15gal and I do double batches in them. The last double batch was a wheat beer and those are known to froth a lot and even with 5 gallons of head space, froth still came up though the air lock.

dp

I agree with all of the above. Bakery, restaraunt etc. Pickles and other crap comes in 5 gallon buckets. You'll need to soak them a while to get the smells out but they'll work. Do nottry a 5 gallon batch on one. Make maybe like a 3 gallon batch or split a 5 gallon batch between two.

The standard 5 gallon buckets from wally-world are food safe, but they are only 5 gallons right-to-the-brim. I use them primarily for hauling water from the local spring, or de-chorinating my tap water.

All the buckets I've seen from hardware stores are #2 plastic. The lids don't seal well and you'll get an infection. Tried using one and that happened to me.

beretta said:

The standard 5 gallon buckets from wally-world are food safe, but they are only 5 gallons right-to-the-brim. I use them primarily for hauling water from the local spring, or de-chorinating my tap water.

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hauling water from the local spring ??? I wish I had one of those lol

I will have to check how much they cost. Would be good for making a smaller batch of something experimental or whatnot...

ericd said:

All the buckets I've seen from hardware stores are #2 plastic. The lids don't seal well and you'll get an infection. Tried using one and that happened to me.

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yeah home depot's "homer bucket" is a #2. i am looking at it right now.

Are we sure it is a bad idea?

i have done a few searches and some people are using them as bottling buckets. but i can not find the pic i saw of one with a fermentation lock on the lid.

Go ahead and use them. I'm on my 3rd batch with one. I use it for primary on my meads and ciders. They are #2 HDPE which IS food grade. You will not get an infection from this pail. Buckets do not cause infections, people cause infections! The only thing I don't like is the lid. Seals really tight and is a ***** to get off. I now use a clean towel instead of the lid.

madewithchicken said:

yeah home depot's "homer bucket" is a #2. i am looking at it right now.

Are we sure it is a bad idea?

i have done a few searches and some people are using them as bottling buckets. but i can not find the pic i saw of one with a fermentation lock on the lid.

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You can use them, despite what everyone else is saying...I wouldn't use the orange onsre though. But I use one as a bottling bucket, and several people use them as fermenters.

It was recommended by my LHBS to get one as a bottling bucket...Before I did though I researched (and I wasn't on this board at the time) I found on another site a plastic's chemist/ homebrewer who happened to have gone to school or something with a chemist who worked for HD on the buckets....Even though they are not labeled so...And I'm going to say it in bold They are food grade!!!!

But since HD is a purveyor of hardware not food they didn't feel the need to go through the hurdles/cost with the fda for the designation foodgrade stamped on the buckets. Yet the chemist assured his brewing chemist body that the plastic is hdpe....so it's safe to use


Personally though I am worried about the dye in the Orange one so I would use a white or the translucent (loc-tite) brand that I got for my bottline bucket....





Ultimately you're gonna have to make up your own mind, as you can see there is a lot of contrary beliefs, and other people just repeat what they've heard without looking..and like with water bottles some of the info on them are out dated in the light of things like the BPE banning.


I trusted the owner of my LHBS, since he opened one of the first ones in Michigan a LOOONG time ago, and he and his staff are pretty serious brewers. But I did some research and read some plastics info.

Ultimately you are gonna have to choose what you want to do.

Thanks Revvy. I figured this was the case, but i needed to have someone else agree with me.

Home Depot sells several 5 gallon buckets. The orange ones are not food grade and will taint your beer. The clear ones are food grade and work fine for a bottling bucket but at 5 gallons, are too small for use as a fermentor, unless you are into 3 gallon batches. If there is any doubt about whether a bucket is food grade or not, just smell it. Food grade plastic is odorless and non food grade plastic smells like...plastic.

Tom

Figbash said:

Home Depot sells several 5 gallon buckets. The orange ones are not food grade and will taint your beer. The clear ones are food grade and work fine for a bottling bucket but at 5 gallons, are too small for use as a fermentor.

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+1 I bought a couple of the clear/translucent buckets a few months back. The ones I got actually say they are food grade right on the bucket. I use them for bottling and sanitizing.

The orange homer buckets here have the same stamp as the Ale Pail buckets. You'd probably want to adjust your batch down to 4 gallons so you'd have enough headroom.

I'm looking to do about 80% small batch and I've had great luck with the bakeries. 3.5 and 4.25 gallon sizes are common.

Figbash said:

Home Depot sells several 5 gallon buckets. The orange ones are not food grade and will taint your beer. The clear ones are food grade and work fine for a bottling bucket but at 5 gallons, are too small for use as a fermentor, unless you are into 3 gallon batches. If there is any doubt about whether a bucket is food grade or not, just smell it. Food grade plastic is odorless and non food grade plastic smells like...plastic.

Tom

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Sorry Tom, I've already posted two posts above you, the info that the Orange ones ARE food grade (though not stamped as such, but confirmend by the chemist for HD)...it's the same plastic on the line as the non orange ones, just with the dye added during extrusion.


But having said that I still don't recommend the orange ones for fear of the dye leaching into the beer...but that's just me...Other people I have seen are less concerned and ferment in them, including IIRC Gila on here.

And if someone uses fermcap foam control drops at the time they pitch the yeast that will prevent blowoffs, especially so with a blowoff tube, and if the buckets have at least an inch of headroom above the 5 gallon mark, you could use them as fermenters if you were inclined. Like I said, some buckets hold a bit more than 5 gallons, and mark 5 an inch or so below.

I use the orange Homer bucket for bottling. I'm certainly not a plastics expert, but it hasn't killed me...yet.

I just started a 4 gallon batch of apfelwein in an orange bucket. I thought that something cheap should test out the orange buckets. I would hate to ruin something expensive in case Revvy's fear of the dye pans out to be true.

madewithchicken said:

I just started a 4 gallon batch of apfelwein in an orange bucket. I thought that something cheap should test out the orange buckets. I would hate to ruin something expensive in case Revvy's fear of the dye pans out to be true.

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Good on you!!!


Thanks for taking a bullet for the team.

Like I said it's more a "me" thing than anything else...I remember all the "Red Dye # 2" recalls of, IIRC the 70's...so I am a little squeemish about pigmnets...especially since I have played with various pigments in art projects, including tinting polymer clay when I used to make jewelry and stuff.

Revvy said:

Sorry Tom, I've already posted two posts above you, the info that the Orange ones ARE food grade (though not stamped as such, but confirmend by the chemist for HD)...it's the same plastic on the line as the non orange ones, just with the dye added during extrusion.

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I wouldn't put much faith the HD chemist. The last time I was there I compared the two and there is no way I would brew in the orange buckets. The smell of plasticizers was very apparent in them but not at all in the clear buckets.

Tom

Figbash said:

I don't know if I'd put too much faith the HD chemist. I compared the two buckets last time I was there and there is no way I'd brew in the orange buckets. I could definitely smell the plasticizers in them but not at all in the clear buckets.

Tom

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Give em a good rinse and the smell goes away. They're not produced for food use so they have a good bit of manufacturing nasties left behind (bits of plastic, chemicals, etc).

I gave mine a few hot rinses and have had no problems. I use my homer for apfelwein, about 30 gallons now and not a hint of off flavors. Tastes the same as the stuff out of my better bottle. No discoloration or anything unusual in the bucket either.

A co-workers wife works in the cafeteria of a local high school, and an endless supply of food grade buckets in every size.

I just bought two of these HD buckets. I had to go with orange lids but I don't think it's a big deal. Including the grommets, lids, and buckets I got 2 fermenters for $8.50 each.

yup I got one to do apfelwein 3g batches in . I got the translucent bucket from lowes and the orange lid from HD. The lid has a rubber seal. The lowes lid went on tight, but seems to leak air, or atleast I havnt seen the airlock bubble.

Revvy, as much as I hate to make my first post here a negative one, I feel the need to clarify a few points that your chemist friend failed to recognize. Allow me to start by informing you that I worked for many years in the plastics industry.

HDPE, or high density polyethylene is an injected polymer plastic. By FDA regulations, to be stipulated as a "food grade" plastic, the object must be made entirely from virgin material. The "Homer" buckets sold at your local Home Depot are not made with 100% virgin material. Their "recipe" for the bucket allows for up to 15% recycled material. This material, while shredded, washed and sanitized may or may not be of originally food grade plastics.

Most plastics manufacturers will try to use as much recycled material as they can, but there are times, due to delivery issues, that raw or virgin material is the used for 100% of the product. It could very well be that some of the buckets from Home Depot are technically of a food grade because there wasn't any recycled material to be used. Generally speaking though, one should always consider the fact that they are allowed to use up to 15% according to their own formula.

Another thing to consider is mold release. Mold release is a spray that is used to coat the inside of the injection mold before the plastic is injected into it. To be of food grade, a company is required to use an FDA approved lubricant for contact with food, and the product must then be washed after being formed and released from the mold. This normally isn't an issue, since we wash and sanitize everything, but since the buckets in question are potentially 15% non-HDPE, food grade material, the chance exists that mold release will be retained within the plastic and degass into your beer, or other beverage, during fermentation. Most non-food grade manufacturers use a petroleum based mold release, since it is much less expensive vs. the FDA approved mold release.

Regardless of size, I would highly recommend against using the "Homer" bucket for any kind of fermentation.....sorry.

BH

Edit: I did some research to verify that my information was still correct, and it is NOT. Food grade plastics may contain recycled material, but the conditions are very stringent. You can see what the FDA has to say about it here. I also discovered that Home Depot does not require that their supplier of the "Homer" bucket follow the food grade requirements. This does not mean that they aren't (although the FDA does not allow for dyes in food grade plastics), only that their creation, and the materials used (as mentioned above in my original post) are not necessarily of food grade.

I dunno, I will surely get flamed but here is my rant. I have seen Food Grade 5 gallon buckets with lid for $5.00 from Primary fermenters - Fermenting buckets - Plastic buckets - Wine making supplies. My local homebrew store has them for the same price. I am not made of money, and I am all for saving a buck here and there, but I just don't think it is worth the risk to save $2.00 a bucket. If someone gets ill from these Homer Buckets, God forbid, was it worth the $2.00 savings? It's certainly not to me. You may not feel the effects today, but we don't know the long term health effects of the dyes used in the Homer Buckets. I certainly don't want to be the Guinea Pig, not to save a whopping $2.00.

Food Grade means it is manufacturered from virgin material. Sudan Dyes are commonly used to color non food grade plastics.

"What are the potential health effects of these dyes? Sudan I may have a genotoxic effect and Sudan I to IV have potential carcinogenic effects according to the International Agency for Research on Cancer. Consequently, the fraud identified by adulteration of food products by Sudan dyes constitutes a risk for public health."

Sawdustguy said:

I dunno, I will surely get flamed but here is my rant. <snip> I am not made of money, and I am all for saving a buck here and there, but I just don't think it is worth the risk to save $2.00 a bucket. If someone gets ill from these Homer Buckets, God forbid, was it worth the $2.00 savings? It's certainly not to me. You may not feel the effects today, but we don't know the long term health effects of the dyes used in the Homer Buckets. I certainly don't want to be the Guinea Pig, not to save a whopping $2.00. <snip>

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You will not be flamed by me. I agree with this completely. I suppose if I was simultaneously fermenting 20 batches of beer, I might be inclined to economize on buckets. But just for a few? No way.....just not that much money involved.
Other buckets that may cross my path I'll just use for other purposes. I got a nice gray Pratt & Lambert 5 gal. paint bucket that I'm converting to hold my Corona mill for grinding my grain.

Sawdustguy said:

I dunno, I will surely get flamed but here is my rant.

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not by me either

Sawdustguy said:

Food Grade means it is manufacturered from virgin material. Sudan Dyes are commonly used to color non food grade plastics.

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SDG, that is not correct. I originally thought so as well (since that used to be the standard), but the FDA has changed it's rules to allow the use of recycled material in food grade plastics. The stipulation though, is that the material that is recycled has to be of 100% food grade plastics originally, and the company recycling the plastic has to use a sorting, cleansing and sanitizing system that ensures there is no contamination of the recycled plastics. So basically what's being done is the FDA has come out and said, "Sure, use recycled plastic, but only recycled food grade plastics. Keep it separate, and you need to clean and sanitize it before you can sell it." The old regulations required 100% virgin material.....just thought I'd let you know.

BH

I'm not on either side of this fence, but to be honest does it really matter? I mean if you look at the sum total of the items we ingest on a daily basis I am pretty sure fermenting in a homer bucket isn't going to be the thing that does you in.... there are much stronger forces in act here.. for example, and i apologize for the example if it offends anyone.

When I was in school, school girls were still girls... a high school girl was maturing into a woman and her body filing out... Now most girls 15 years old can easily be confused for 21+.... it doesn't take a genius to understand that our food supply is chock full of hormones and other chemicals that alter our body chemistry dramatically...

a 3-gallon batch of test brew in a homer bucket is no more harmful that you drinking a glass of tap water, some milk or a burger from the grill...

hayabusa, there is a lot of truth in what you are saying. My point here is that there was some confusion as to whether it is safe to use bucket A or bucket B. Knowing what goes into plastics, and what can happen if you ingest those chemicals....well...let's just say I'll spend the extra $$ to buy the food grade and reduce the chance of poisoning, or worse, ruining a good batch.