Reformulating my house Pale Ale. What do you think?

OK, so last year I came up with a pale ale recipe out of C40, C80, Chinook and Amarillo. I had intended it to be my house pale ale.

Overall it's a good beer and a hit with friends, but I find it lacking something. So I went back to the drawing board and came up with something new. This will have a little more malt character with the biscuit in there, and it uses a hop burst for a smoother, hoppier finish. I opted for the California V strain for a more fruity aroma and finish to complement the hops, and also because it's a very good flocculator.

Thoughts?

Grains:
8 lbs 2-row
1 lb flaked barley
6 oz C-60
4 oz Biscuit malt

Hops:
1oz Perle @20 (7.5% AA)
1oz Simcoe @15 (14.4% AA)
1oz Cascade @10 (7.4% AA)
1oz Perle @Flameout (7.5% AA)
1oz Cascade @Flameout (7.5% AA)

Yeast:
WLP051 (California Ale V), 5-day starter

Mash schedule:
Dough-in at 104F, 30 minute acid rest
Decoct (thick) to 152F, 45 minute conversion rest
Decoct (thin) to 170F, mashout

Fermentation:
62F for 2 weeks, and transfer to keg immediately.

Approximate stats:
OG: 1.052
FG: 1.014
IBU: 44.9
SRM: 6.86 ██████
ABV%: 4.98

It all depends what you are looking for. It looks like it would make a fine beer, but I like mine drier and hoppier. If you like your recipe I would make changes more slowly, switching the malt, hops, or the yeast (not all three at once).

I don’t think the effort of a double decoction is worth it on a beer that already has so much other character, but if you like to find excuses to spend more time brewing (like I do) then it won’t hurt.

Good luck.

You don't like bitterness in your Pales?

BendBrewer said:

You don't like bitterness in your Pales?

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45 IBUs seems like an acceptable number to me for a pale ale?

Well it looks great, but if you found the first one lacked something, I'd change one thing at a time. It looks like the only thing in common with your original house pale is the 2-row. I'd try keeping everything the same but just change to the cal-V so that you can better tell the differences. I've made dozens of bitters the same way except for the yeast and they are indeed all very different.

I like it! I might decrease the flaked barley a bit, as for me it produces haze and I don't like a cloudy APA.

Instead of a decoction, why not try a "character" malt instead? Munich malt, for example, or Vienna malt? Or even a pound of melanoidin malt. That would boost up the maltiness quite a lot and still work great with a single infusion mash.

I don't know anything about recipe formulation, but if I had a house beer, AKA, something I planned to always have on tap, It would not be a double concocted beer with 5 ounces of hops. It would be a quicker, relatively cheap PA with 2-3oz of hops. Just my opinion for a House Beer.

Why the step mashing?

Where are your bittering hops? I don't see 44IBUs.

Only 4 oz of biscuit is not going to do much.

Your house beer should be your favorite. Why have anything else on tap all the time?

Oldsock said:

It all depends what you are looking for. It looks like it would make a fine beer, but I like mine drier and hoppier. If you like your recipe I would make changes more slowly, switching the malt, hops, or the yeast (not all three at once).

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I was kinda underwhelmed with the old recipe. Plus I like writing all my recipes anyway.

Yooper said:

I like it! I might decrease the flaked barley a bit, as for me it produces haze and I don't like a cloudy APA.

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I can take that down, I suppose. I guess I figured the decoction would help with clarity.

Yooper said:

Instead of a decoction, why not try a "character" malt instead? Munich malt, for example, or Vienna malt? Or even a pound of melanoidin malt. That would boost up the maltiness quite a lot and still work great with a single infusion mash.

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I'm really only decocting since I'm doing a step mash anyway. I prefer it to multiple infusions for efficiency.

beerkrump said:

Why the step mashing?

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A rest at 104F is supposed to liquify starches and improve efficiency.

beerkrump said:

Where are your bittering hops? I don't see 44IBUs.

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I'm hop bursting. Simcoe can yield a decent amount of IBUs even at 15 minutes.

beerkrump said:

Only 4 oz of biscuit is not going to do much.

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OK, this is what I love about this forum. Last time I formulated a recipe with half a pound of biscuit, I was told to take it down to 4 oz because it was (supposedly) extremely strong tasting. But it was also a much lighter beer.

So based on these recommendations, double the biscuit, halve the flaked barley, and maybe sub in a pound of melanoidin and go with a single infusion?

BendBrewer said:

You don't like bitterness in your Pales?

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I like a pronounced hop character, but I don't want my APAs to taste like IPAs. As written, the IBUs fall at the high end of the BJCP specification.

bernerbrau said:

I like a pronounced hop character, but I don't want my APAs to taste like IPAs. As written, the IBUs fall at the high end of the BJCP specification.

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I think youd like beer to have a great hoppy flavor and aroma, but if I were you I would probably push an ounce of hops to the 60 minute mark and get rid of a few ounces towards the end of the boil. I don't have much experience with decoction, but I would pass on that as well. Like IrregularPulse said, a House Brew should be cheap and simple, you will be brewing it quite often (if it is good that is!).

I would start without the decoction and hopburst, then you have a 'baseline' to compare to if you want to see what these techniques actually bring to the table. Thats how I plan on getting into more advanced techniques, hone a good recipe and make minor changes one batch at a time.

I don't understand why hop bursting can't be a baseline...

bernerbrau said:

I don't understand why hop bursting can't be a baseline...

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Sure it can! I'd do it.

Your updated recipe looks good. I don't usually step mash, unless I'm doing a beer that needs a protein rest (rare), so I can't advise on that. I generally go with single infusion mash schedules for IPAs and APAs.

Thoughts off the cuff:

I concur that if you're going to tweak, tweak. What you're describing is wholesale deconstruction of the entire recipe (and presumably process). Reduce the variables.

I concur that decoction isn't really appropriate here. If you're looking for greater malt character, don't worry - the Biscuit will suffice.

The 104F rest is pointless with well-modified malts. If you're going to step go with Fix's 50/60/70C schedule; Google it.

I strongly suggest you read Noonan's New Brewing Lager Beer book. He not only takes you through decoction step by step, he tells you where it's appropriate to use it and - most importantly - why. Pay special attention to the ingredients; that has a huge bearing on why and when to decoct.

If you cut down on the flaked barley - and I'd cut it entirely - you don't need to worry about clarity.

I can't speak to hop-bursting because I don't do it. Sounds intriguing, though!

Good luck!

Bob

I haven't done hop bursting. Let me know how it turns out.

+1 to dropping the flaked barley. Why is it there?

I guess I don't really understand the Hop Burst. I was under the assumption that it required 3-4 times the amount of hops to achieve the same IBUs as standard hop addition batches. I use more hops than that brewing traditional Pale Ales. I don't understand where your bitterness is going to come from and I am sure that it is me.

Re: Flaked barley. I put it in my old house APA the second time I brewed it, and I liked the head retention that it got me. But that beer never did clear up (though I really didn't give it enough time to). Perhaps carapils or carafoam be a better option?

Re: don't rewrite, just tweak. This is a fair suggestion. However, my current "house pale" is really not at all what I'm looking for in an always-available session beer. I've brewed the old APA twice, keeping the hop schedule the same, one with Vienna and WLP060, and the other with Maris Otter, flaked barley, and WLP001. They were close enough to one another for me to know I want something else. I've also done an AAA with Amarillo, and in my opinion Amarillo leaves my beers lacking something in the hop department, since it's more of a subtle C-hop than some others. Plus I just love writing new recipes.

Sure, if I had the discipline, I'd probably start with a baseline of 2-row, cascade and centennial, distilled water with a gram each of gypsum and calcium chloride, a single infusion at 149, WLP001 or US-05, and ferment out at 62F. Then I could brew several batches, each time altering just one thing: the hops, the water, the base malt, add a specialty malt, change the yeast, the mash, the fermenting temperature, and so on. I could then keep a detailed journal with tasting notes so that I would know exactly how each change effects the beer.

Re: Step mash. I based my decoction on the 40/60/70 schedule (http://www.howtobrew.com/section3/chapter16-2.html), except combining the two conversion rests and adding a thin decoction mashout. Palmer recommends a short 104F rest for improving enzymatic activity (http://www.howtobrew.com/section3/chapter14-3.html).

Re: Decoction. Again, I realize a decoction is probably not necessary for a beer like this and I will probably drop it from the "official" recipe. However, decoction tends to be less of a recipe-specific thing for me and more part of my baseline process. I also tend to prefer decoctions to multiple infusions if I'm step mashing, because it gives me better control over how much water I end up using. Also, I always pull a thin decoction for the mash-out, because the recirculation improves my clarity and efficiency, I have more water for sparging, and boiling the wort guarantees a halt to enzymatic activity.

In short, it's a process I'm familiar with. Granted, I don't have the thick decoctions quite down to a science yet as I always seem to undershoot my temps, but that's why I prefer to decoct whenever I can, so I can improve my technique and be ready for when a recipe actually calls for it.

Re: Hop burst. I've been hop bursting for over a year now and I do like the results it gets me.

Overall it's a good beer and a hit with friends, but I find it lacking something.

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I think everyone should make beer that they enjoy and that there are different ways to achieve similar results. But when you say you find it lacking something, I think I might have an idea what it is. I don't see where you would get the bitterness typically found in traditional pale ales. But again, to each his own and if you like it, you win!

All I make is Pale Ales.

bernerbrau said:

I always seem to undershoot my temps, but that's why I prefer to decoct whenever I can, so I can improve my technique and be ready for when a recipe actually calls for it.

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I picked up a technique from one of Kai’s decoction videos that has really helped. I pull the grain the calculator calls for, then I add 20% of the volume in water. That way you don’t have to boil the enzymatic rich liquid, and you still have enough decoction volume to hit your rest temp.

Do you hold your recoction at a Sacch rest to convert or just keep going? A few weeks ago I did a similar triple decoction for a pils (101, 148, 162, 170) not as bad as I expected, but still a 9 hour brew day.

Personally, I think that doing a decoction for a beer like this is a waste of time. I don't have a problem spending a dollar more on grain for a loss of efficiency. Why waste that time when you could use it brewing another batch?

I use mostly late hops for my beers as well and like the results.

Eric

BendBrewer said:

I guess I don't really understand the Hop Burst. I was under the assumption that it required 3-4 times the amount of hops to achieve the same IBUs as standard hop addition batches. I use more hops than that brewing traditional Pale Ales. I don't understand where your bitterness is going to come from and I am sure that it is me.

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See here for hop bursting. These are my numbers from Brewmaster's Warehouse. I do need to get home and plug them into Beersmith, which I find to be more accurate, but I like BMW for quickly mocking stuff up.

But just going by the Tinseth formula (http://realbeer.com/hops/research.html), the 15-minute 1oz Simcoe addition alone (14.4% AA) in 5 gallons of finished wort at 1.052 yields 24.4 IBUs:

(0.144*1*7490 / 5) * 1.65 * 0.000125^(1.052 - 1) * ((1 - e^(-.04*15))/4.15)
=215.712*1.65*0.6267*0.1087
=24.4

That's over half my bitterness right there. I'm not going to run the other numbers, but just estimating, they're both around half the IBU of the Simcoe, and their addition times average at 15 minutes, same as the Simcoe, so twice the hops at the same time and half the alpha acid yields about the same IBU contribution, which is pretty close to the calculated 44 IBUs.

BendBrewer said:

But when you say you find it lacking something, I think I might have an idea what it is. I don't see where you would get the bitterness typically found in traditional pale ales.

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Nope, my old one doesn't use a hop burst: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f12/all-grain-pale-ale-critiques-please-185659/

Now, instead of blaming my problems on the hop burst and questioning how I could possibly get the proper IBUs, why don't you go and try one yourself and report back with the results? I've done it in batches for over a year now and I like the results, and I don't think the hop bitterness is underbalanced at all. I just don't see why you're so dismissive of it, especially when I have the benefit of experience in this particular instance.

You say you use more hops in your APAs... what's a typical schedule for you?

EricCSU said:

Personally, I think that doing a decoction for a beer like this is a waste of time. I don't have a problem spending a dollar more on grain for a loss of efficiency. Why waste that time when you could use it brewing another batch?

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Again, see my excuses in an above post. Also, I rarely have time for two batches in one day.

IrregularPulse said:

I don't know anything about recipe formulation, but if I had a house beer, AKA, something I planned to always have on tap, It would not be a double concocted beer with 5 ounces of hops. It would be a quicker, relatively cheap PA with 2-3oz of hops. Just my opinion for a House Beer.

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hops are cheap, I say toss 'em in

Oldsock said:

Do you hold your recoction at a Sacch rest to convert or just keep going? A few weeks ago I did a similar triple decoction for a pils (101, 148, 162, 170) not as bad as I expected, but still a 9 hour brew day.

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I try to hold it, but I missed it and hit mashout temps when I was doing my Pilsner. Seemed to convert OK anyway. Next time I'm going to try using a much gentler heat, so it only rises 1 degree or so every 2 minutes.

I've also read recently to add water to the decoctions. I'm going to try it out next time I do one. On my triple decoctions, I'm looking into trying the Enhanced Double Decoction technique to save on time. I've also read on here that some people who do regular decoctions pull the mash almost immediately after reaching the target temp, which can help speed up your mash as well.

Perhaps you would have more time if you didn't use it on a step mash. I would challenge you to brew two batches, one with a step mash and the other with a single infusion. Then compare the beers.

It takes me 4 hours for one batch and 5.5 hours for two batches. Just my personal experience.

As far as recipe formulation, have you considered brewing a couple different tried and true recipes and then altering the recipe after trying the results. I altered Jamil's APA recipe a few times to create mine and it is quick and reliable. Ignore the fractions, I scaled this recipe down from a bigger batch.

Brew Type: All Grain Date: 12/15/2009
Style: American Pale Ale Brewer: Eric
Batch Size: 5.50 gal Assistant Brewer:
Boil Volume: 7.99 gal Boil Time: 60 min
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.00 % Equipment: My Equipment
Actual Efficiency: 74.86 %
Taste Rating (50 possible points): 35.0

Ingredients Amount Item Type % or IBU
7 lbs 2.4 oz Pale Malt, Maris Otter (3.0 SRM) Grain 82.55 %
12.1 oz Victory Malt (25.0 SRM) Grain 8.73 %
7.7 oz Cara-Pils/Dextrine (2.0 SRM) Grain 5.54 %
4.4 oz Wheat Malt, Ger (2.0 SRM) Grain 3.18 %
14.00 gm Centennial [9.70 %] (60 min) Hops 19.5 IBU
56.00 gm Amarillo Gold [8.50 %] (Dry Hop 7 days) Hops -
8.00 gm Cascade [5.50 %] (30 min) Hops 3.2 IBU
18.00 gm Cascade [5.50 %] (10 min) Hops 2.8 IBU
18.00 gm Cascade [5.50 %] (5 min) Hops 2.4 IBU
13.00 gm Cascade [5.50 %] (1 min) Hops 1.7 IBU
7.00 gm Centennial [9.70 %] (1 min) Hops 1.6 IBU
1.10 items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 15.0 min) Misc
1.10 tsp Yeast Nutrient (Boil 15.0 min) Misc
1 Pkgs California Ale (White Labs #WLP001) [Starter 1000 ml] Yeast-Ale

Beer Profile Estimated Original Gravity: 1.044 SG (1.045-1.060 SG) Measured Original Gravity: 1.044 SG
Estimated Final Gravity: 1.010 SG (1.010-1.015 SG) Measured Final Gravity: 1.010 SG
Estimated Color: 6.0 SRM (5.0-14.0 SRM) Color [Color]
Bitterness: 31.3 IBU (30.0-45.0 IBU) Alpha Acid Units: 6.3 AAU
Estimated Alcohol by Volume: 4.43 % (4.50-6.00 %) Actual Alcohol by Volume: 4.43 %
Actual Calories: 193 cal/pint

Mash at 155F for 45 minutes, mash out at 168F.

Cutting it to 5.5 gallons, my typical hop schedule is:

.75 ounce Magnum/Columbus - (14-15%) 60 minutes
.75 ounce cascade (~8%) 30 minutes
1 ounce Cascade 10 minutes
.75 ounce cascade 5 minutes
1/2 ounce cascade flameout

I think the calculators say that comes out to 65-70 ibus but my beer isn't that much more bitter than SNPA so I guess they would actually test out in the 40-45 ibu range. Too many unknown factors for those on line calculators to be all that accurate.

EricCSU said:

Perhaps you would have more time if you didn't use it on a step mash.

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What I mean is I rarely have time to do two brews in a day, even when I'm not doing a step mash. I did an IPA weekend before last. I started at noon. Single infusion, thin decoction mashout, 90 minute boil. The sun was going down by the time I started the immersion chiller.

EricCSU said:

I would challenge you to brew two batches, one with a step mash and the other with a single infusion. Then compare the beers.

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I don't doubt that unless it was something like a pilsner, they would probably be very similar.

EricCSU said:

It takes me 4 hours for one batch and 5.5 hours for two batches. Just my personal experience.

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It normally takes me 6-7 hours for one regular batch without any extra steps in the mash. I've got one burner, one BK, and one MLT (though the 5-gallon HLT can double as an MLT in a pinch). With that setup I find it's hard to stay organized enough to do the work in parallel.

EricCSU said:

As far as recipe formulation, have you considered brewing a couple different tried and true recipes and then altering the recipe after trying the results. I altered Jamil's APA recipe a few times to create mine and it is quick and reliable. Ignore the fractions, I scaled this recipe down from a bigger batch.

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I'm not against brewing existing tried and true recipes. In the past year I've brewed a lager and a stout from recipes on this site, one of which won best of show in a BJCP competition (for the original brewer, not me). Both were excellent beers.

But as I've said before, I just find I get more satisfaction out of a batch when the recipe is my own, and there's always an ingredient or two out there that I haven't used in a while, or haven't used before, and I'll want to try it in something, so I pull up the BJCP guidelines, google for similar recipes, and use those to put something together.

BendBrewer said:

Cutting it to 5.5 gallons, my typical hop schedule is:

.75 ounce Magnum/Columbus - (14-15%) 60 minutes
.75 ounce cascade (~8%) 30 minutes
1 ounce Cascade 10 minutes
.75 ounce cascade 5 minutes
1/2 ounce cascade flameout

I think the calculators say that comes out to 65-70 ibus but my beer isn't that much more bitter than SNPA so I guess they would actually test out in the 40-45 ibu range. Too many unknown factors for those on line calculators to be all that accurate.

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So after I show my work, you suggest that the formulas aren't accurate. I see there's no pleasing you.

Also I'm actually using more hops in my schedule than you are (5oz compared to 3.75oz), so I don't understand why you claimed you use more hops in your APAs than I do.

And SNPA is actually outside the normal range for an APA.

Clearly you don't think the hop burst will work as written and clearly you're not open to suggestion otherwise. Let's just agree to disagree and move on.

One thing I didn't consider is that I do have a double burner and so I am using both burners at some times during the process. The differences in our system would be a problem, and I didn't consider that.

I enjoy session beers, so one thing that I routinely do is find a great recipe and figure out how to get those flavors in a beer less than 4.5%. I have been able to successfully do that with a few beers and really enjoy it. So, in a way, we are much the same in wanting to make our own recipes.

Eric

Also, in regard to hopbursting, one taste of Jamil's Evin Twin and you will know that hopbursting is fantastic!

Eric

bernerbrau said:

Also I'm actually using more hops in my schedule than you are (5oz compared to 3.75oz), so I don't understand why you claimed you use more hops in your APAs than I do.

And SNPA is actually outside the normal range for an APA.

Clearly you don't think the hop burst will work as written and clearly you're not open to suggestion otherwise. Let's just agree to disagree and move on.

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I thought it was you asking for suggestions by the look of your OP.

Here's my 2 cents: Do whatever you want to do. But I guarantee that if you find certain things about this formula that you do not like compared to the previous batch, you will have a hard time nailing down what gave you the difference with such a recipe overhaul.

Let us know how the new Haus Pale turns out.

kpr121 said:

I thought it was you asking for suggestions by the look of your OP.

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Yes. Does that disqualify me from disagreeing when I think someone is incorrect in their advice?

kpr121 said:

Here's my 2 cents: Do whatever you want to do. But I guarantee that if you find certain things about this formula that you do not like compared to the previous batch, you will have a hard time nailing down what gave you the difference with such a recipe overhaul.

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I'm not really even considering them the same beer. If this ends up being a much better beer overall, even if it's not perfect, I may be more willing to tweak it to get exactly what I want. If not, I can either start again, or perhaps try combining elements from both recipes.

I got ya. After re-reading your first post I realize that you want to come up with a brand new beer, not necessarily tweak the previous recipe.

I am personnally intrigued with the hop bursting technique. I've never tried it before, and specifically because of this thread, I am going to give it a shot on my next pale or IPA. I don't really care about the IBU number so much as coming up with a nice smooth, hoppy, bitter brew!

bernerbrau said:

So after I show my work, you suggest that the formulas aren't accurate. I see there's no pleasing you.

Also I'm actually using more hops in my schedule than you are (5oz compared to 3.75oz), so I don't understand why you claimed you use more hops in your APAs than I do.

And SNPA is actually outside the normal range for an APA.

Clearly you don't think the hop burst will work as written and clearly you're not open to suggestion otherwise. Let's just agree to disagree and move on.

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I am not trying to argue and I am not sure how I could phrase my posts any better to display this.

I do understand that you are using more hops, but as I clearly explained in a previous post, I don't understand Hop Bursting very well as I had thought it required 3-4 times the amount of hops to achieve the same IBUs. It's simply what I have read on the technique.

IBU calculation has a lot more to it than AA% weight and time in boil. What is the degradation of your hops? What is your hop utilization rate in your system at your boil temp? These factors change the final IBU a great deal.

I'm just trying to help. You said your beer is lacking something, not me. Good luck on finding out what it is lacking. I think it is bitterness.

But again, you like it? You win!

BendBrewer said:

I am not trying to argue and I am not sure how I could phrase my posts any better to display this.

I do understand that you are using more hops, but as I clearly explained in a previous post, I don't understand Hop Bursting very well as I had thought it required 3-4 times the amount of hops to achieve the same IBUs. It's simply what I have read on the technique.

IBU calculation has a lot more to it than AA% weight and time in boil. What is the degradation of your hops? What is your hop utilization rate in your system at your boil temp? These factors change the final IBU a great deal.

I'm just trying to help. You said your beer is lacking something, not me. Good luck on finding out what it is lacking. I think it is bitterness.

But again, you like it? You win!

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Here is a great article on hopbursting. I use it for all my hoppy beers and it helps the beer become drinkable faster (less harsh bittering) and they have a fantastic aroma. I personally shoot for about 50% of the bittering to come from the 60 and 20 minute additions, the rest from 10, 5, and 1 minute additions.

Eric

Yeah that's what I though it was:

"The secret, it turns out, is very large additions of late hops. "

I guess "Very Large Additions" mean different things to different people.

Another brewery that has embraced late hopping is Firestone Walker Brewing Company of Paso Robles, California. Brewmaster Matt Brynildson says, "We practice a lot of late hopping on the majority of our beers. Our main goal with increasing our late hops is big hop aroma and flavor. All of our beers have at least some hops that are added at the beginning of boil for bitterness

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Thanks for the link Eric. Informational.

BendBrewer said:

IBU calculation has a lot more to it than AA% weight and time in boil. What is the degradation of your hops? What is your hop utilization rate in your system at your boil temp? These factors change the final IBU a great deal.

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I prefer to use whole hops and I like to hop directly in the kettle without a bag or ball... the boil temperature where I live is about 211. I also don't buy hops in bulk - I try to use them soon after I buy them. My utilization and degradation should be pretty optimal. Besides, if I'm getting well below the projected numbers then that's a problem of utilization, not formulation.

As for the 3-4x number you keep quoting, can you at least cite a reference? The 3-4x doesn't make sense to me because the rate at which the alpha acids are absorbed into the wort tapers off inverse-exponentially over time (diffusion), so hops added at 20 minutes will have a much greater per-minute IBU yield than a 60-minute addition. For example, with your hop schedule, using the Tinseth formula all I have to do is move that Magnum addition to 20 minutes and up it to 1.25 ounces to get the same IBUs. (Incidentally I calc that at 50 IBUs, not 70.)

And yes, Tinseth does recommend tweaking some of the coefficients to your system when predicting IBUs using his formula.

BendBrewer said:

I'm just trying to help. You said your beer is lacking something, not me. Good luck on finding out what it is lacking. I think it is bitterness.

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And I just think that's a weird conclusion to be making when you haven't tasted my beer and you haven't seen all my recipes.

EricCSU said:

I personally shoot for about 50% of the bittering to come from the 60 and 20 minute additions, the rest from 10, 5, and 1 minute additions.

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All of our beers have at least some hops that are added at the beginning of boil for bitterness

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Huh. So maybe I am hop-bursting wrong after all?

bernerbrau said:

Huh. So maybe I am hop-bursting wrong after all?

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Read the entire article and not just a sentence or two someone posted to support their point. There are multiple instances in the article in which the author sites or quotes individuals doing exactly as you plan.

Do it! Fortune favors the bold!!!

bernerbrau said:

As for the 3-4x number you keep quoting, can you at least cite a reference? The 3-4x doesn't make sense to me because the rate at which the alpha acids are absorbed into the wort tapers off inverse-exponentially over time (diffusion), so hops added at 20 minutes will have a much greater per-minute IBU yield than a 60-minute addition. For example, with your hop schedule, using the Tinseth formula all I have to do is move that Magnum addition to 20 minutes and up it to 1.25 ounces to get the same IBUs. (Incidentally I calc that at 50 IBUs, not 70.)

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Sure. http://www.britishbrewer.com/2010/03/hop-bursting/

They do the math but in conclusion:

"So we have an ale with the same IBU made with the same hops as the traditional bittering method except the hop load is 5 1/2 oz as compared with 1.2 oz giving us an really BIG hop flavour and aroma. "

beerkrump said:

Read the entire article and not just a sentence or two someone posted to support their point. There are multiple instances in the article in which the author sites or quotes individuals doing exactly as you plan.

Do it! Fortune favors the bold!!!

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OK good, because that article is what started me on hop bursting in the first place. I was starting to worry because if I hadn't actually read to do it that way, I don't know where I would have gotten the idea.