Liquid Yeast Question

So the other day I was at my LHBS and I got all the ingredients to brew a Sam Summer type clone, but the guy gave me liquid yeast... something I've never used before.

On the instructions on the bottle, it just says bring it to room temperature since it's been in the fridge since I bought it and leave out for 3~6 hours.

I see on here though, you guys talk about a yeast starter, but the instructions on it don't say anything about a starter, just pour and aerate into my wort.

So... should I be using a starter? Or is this just a follow the instructions RDWHAHB type deal?

Thanks.

Check this out.

http://www.mrmalty.com/calc/calc.html

As far as making a starter just search yeast starter there is a ton of threads to help you make one.

OK, one problem is I don't have what I should be shooting for an OG. More research go go!

Thanks though, I'll continue on.

With that beer you will be ~1.045 to 1.050 i am guessing.

If you choose to make a starter, a 1.5 L starter would be just fine.

What yeast did he give you?

Yeah, what yeast is it? Is it a White Labs vial or Wyeast Activator pack?

I've used Wyeast with great results to date. For a brew with an OG of under ~1.060 you don't really need a starter. Just smack it to break the nutrient pack, let it swell (to prove the yeast are good) and pitch in once swelled nicely. I actually smacked one Saturday evening, let it swell up overnight (it was under a week old, so I didn't need to let it go as long) and then pitched it in Sunday. My OG was 1.065 and it's fermenting very nicely (at least one airlock movement per second, has been since later in the day Monday)...

If you have the White Labs vial, then I would do a small starter just to make sure the yeast is all good, or enough of it is good to do the job. Without the activator type design, you won't know until after you've pitched it in, if it's still viable (without using a starter)...

That is one of the reasons why I like the Wyeast packs so much. If you smack it, break the nutrient pouch, and nothing happens in several hours, you take it back to the store and they give you a replacement, for free. Granted, if the packet is older, you need to give it enough time to swell. White Labs doesn't do that. Especially since you don't have any way to know if it's good/viable unless you make a starter. I'm not sure if they would give you a replacement if the starter didn't do anything (they can claim anything they like about the starter, for why it didn't work)...

At the LHBS I go to, the majority of the Wyeast yeast they sell is well under a month old. If you tell them what you want, about a week ahead of time, they'll order it up and you'll have yeast that's just a few days old. The yeast I just used was stamped as being packaged on 2/23, so just a few days old...

It's a liquid White Labs vial.

Ok, so I should do a starter. Cool, I guess we'll brew the beer tomorrow and do the starter today. Great advice and thanks for that.

It's a White Labs American Hefe yeast vial.

I would make a starter for any liquid yeast regardless of whether its from White Labs or Wyeast. Swelling of a Wyeast smack pack may tell you that you have viable yeast, but it certainly doesn't tell you how many. I have had many stuck fermentationss with Wyeast smack packs even after they swelled within a reasonable time. However, after I starter doing yeast starters, the stuck fermentations dissipated.

For any brew over 1.065-1.070, I use at least a small starter. Small as in a 1/2 gallon jar, about 1/2 filled with starter then liquid yeast poured in. I do this for yeast I've washed as well. Even though I'm probably close to the slurry amount for my brews just with the jar of washes/harvested yeast, it doesn't hurt to give them a leg up.

I typically make a starter 1-2 days before the planned brew day. That way, if it needs a little more time to do it's thing, I can let it have it. I also try to plan brew days for a Saturday, so that I have a secondary day I can use if needed. Helps to be flexible.

Once I get a refractometer, I'll be able to check the gravity of my starter to make sure it's in line with what I need for the brew. I'll probably need to do that before I brew up MOAB...

unionrdr said:

^^^Word. No more start,stop,wait a few days,shake-a-puddin,cuss,swear,stomp...we all go through it. BUT...why in holy blazes does everybody seem to think they need a starter the size of a pregnant moose? You don't need all that liquid. I use 1 1/2C of hot water with 1/4C of DME/SDME added to it. Get it down to temp,pitch the yeast in it,& go about your brew day. It took me 3 1/2 hours to do an all extract recipe I put together,thanx electric stove & no lids%^^%#&(&*(^$!! But that did give the nearly dead dry ale yeast a real good start! & those Cooper's sachets are,like .7oz,something like that.? Just stirred it up (it really does get creamy) to get it all in suspension again. Then pitch dat *****. This was at 7:35pm. By 7:10am,the brown krausen was pushing against the lid! That plastic fermenter sounded like a creaky old wooden ship by the middle of the 3rd day. Thought sure I was going to have Vesuvius on my hands...

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I stopped reading this 2 sentences in... it is so difficult to read all clumped up, especially with the punctuation used.

I start with about a quart into the pot, to boil the DME... I then add about 1-2 cups of cool/cold water to get it to temp faster. So probably not much over a quart... the 1/2 gallon jar is usually about 2/3 full, plenty of head space to prevent foamcano's... I also usually cover with sanitized aluminum foil, so that it's not going to pop it's top. Give it some swirling as I can, and just make sure the yeast are alive/awake/getting ready for their big day...

I have about 4oz of reserved yeast that's going to be used for a barleywine... I'll make a decent sized starter for that, just to make sure they're all ready for being pitched into the wort. Probably get a gallon jar/jug for that starter. I want to get that started soon, so that it can be ready for drinking come the fall/winter holiday season...

wulfsburg said:

I stopped reading this 2 sentences in... it is so difficult to read all clumped up, especially with the punctuation used.

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I got A"'s in English,composition,etc all through college. That's proper punctuation. The extra "," & such are literary devices creating a pause. And some versions of vbulletin don't let me make paragraphs. This site is using a version of it. Not to mention,you sound like one of the guys on probetalk.com that are always carping about that. I'll go back & make some paragraphs,if that's possible. And learn some grammar before complaining.
OK,how's that? I was just typing as I composed. It's a lil cleaner now.

Wow, you got A's in college?? Guess you left it all there, or it's dissipated over the years.

I won't claim to have earned high marks all through college, I did well enough though. At least I have a decent idea of where to break for a new paragraph...

How about getting back on topic??

From your picture, "doddering old fart" pretty much fits...

I would use Mr. Malty's site for figuring out a starter for a larger brew... Anything under ~1.070 (for me) with fresh yeast usually gets a smallish starter (compared with how some people make them)...

Big brews are usually fermented with harvested yeast, so I have more than enough to do the job. I just make a starter to ensure they're awake and up to the task. Do it a day or two ahead so that I have time to get fresh yeast if needed (and build up a decent sized starter)...

Basically, figure out what works best for you and go with it... There's very few actual "right" and "wrong" ways of doing things.

unionrdr said:

^^^Word. No more start,stop,wait a few days,shake-a-puddin,cuss,swear,stomp...we all go through it. BUT...why in holy blazes does everybody seem to think they need a starter the size of a pregnant moose? You don't need all that liquid.

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agree! 1/2 gallon starter MAX! No matter what Mr. Malty says.

Pivovar_Koucky said:

agree! 1/2 gallon starter MAX! No matter what Mr. Malty says.

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I would go with a bigger starter, or make sure you have enough yeast, for a BIG brew... I'm talking about something that's going to ferment out to at least 10-12%... My MOAB is planned for the 13-15% range..

Golddiggie said:

I would go with a bigger starter, or make sure you have enough yeast, for a BIG brew... I'm talking about something that's going to ferment out to at least 10-12%... My MOAB is planned for the 13-15% range..

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Fair enough.

Whats the final gravity on that beer?

Pivovar_Koucky said:

Fair enough.

Whats the final gravity on that beer?

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As it stands, for now, MOAB will have an OG target of about 1.150, with a FG target of 1.020-1.040... The FG will depend on how I mash it... I'm thinking of ~152F (might go closer to 150F) for the mash, for 90 minutes. Of course, with almost 29# of grain, for a 5 gallon batch, it's going to be BIG...

MOAB is why I wanted to get my 70 quart cooler converted into a MLT... With that available, I'll be able to mash up to ~45# of grain at one time... :rockin:

Need to communicate with some people that have done large brews like this, so that I can get the logistics ironed out... I also plan on making a few brews in the MLT before MOAB so that I can get an idea of the efficiency with it...

Golddiggie said:

As it stands, for now, MOAB will have an OG target of about 1.150, with a FG target of 1.020-1.040... The FG will depend on how I mash it... I'm thinking of ~152F (might go closer to 150F) for the mash, for 90 minutes. Of course, with almost 29# of grain, for a 5 gallon batch, it's going to be BIG...

MOAB is why I wanted to get my 70 quart cooler converted into a MLT... With that available, I'll be able to mash up to ~45# of grain at one time... :rockin:

Need to communicate with some people that have done large brews like this, so that I can get the logistics ironed out... I also plan on making a few brews in the MLT before MOAB so that I can get an idea of the efficiency with it...

Click to expand...

Do you have experience with beers above 10%? I tried to do a partial mash at 9% and it just wasn't fermentable enough. Pooped out at 1.035, I thought it was a stuck fermentation so I made 1/2 g of a somewhat smaller beer with some generous hopping, pitched some of the same yeast onto it and added that when it hit high kraeuzen. Still only got down to 1.030, it was ok with the extra hops. Probably wont try to make a beer that big with extract again.

If it was me, I'd probably work my way up to the MOAB. Start at 9% and work my way up. Of course, you end up with a lot of strong beer that way.....

Pivovar_Koucky said:

Do you have experience with beers above 10%? I tried to do a partial mash at 9% and it just wasn't fermentable enough. Pooped out at 1.035, I thought it was a stuck fermentation so I made 1/2 g of a somewhat smaller beer with some generous hopping, pitched some of the same yeast onto it and added that when it hit high kraeuzen. Still only got down to 1.030, it was ok with the extra hops. Probably wont try to make a beer that big with extract again.

If it was me, I'd probably work my way up to the MOAB. Start at 9% and work my way up. Of course, you end up with a lot of strong beer that way.....

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Not beer's above 10%... yet... I did make a brew that's 9.7%... As well as an old ale that is at 8.1%...

I've made some mead already, coming in in the 14-18%+ range...

I might try some more modest brews before coming out with MOAB... I have a MO Braggot recipe that I'll be looking to make fairly soon. Might scale it down a hair, to make sure it's good with just one yeast (Wyeast 1728 Scottish Ale)... Might dose it with EC-1118 for bottling, to ensure carbonation happens, depending on how it finishes.

I know that how it finishes will depend, a lot, on the mash temp... That's what I'm looking to get more info on, as it gets closer... As well as my grain combination that I've set up.

Waiting to see how my first brew with honey malt comes out... I brewed it on 2/13, so it still has some time to go. Will probably check on it this Sunday, to see how it is...