Help! Seriously fine apples sediment

Hello everyone!

A buddy and me are in our second year of cider making and upped the ante with the use of an apple press. We initially yielded 30L of juice. We then added 12 Campden tablets and after 12 hours we added pectic enzyme (40g) and an antioxidant (7g).

I thought at this point we would be ready for pitching yeast!

But after twelve hours I came home to find the mixture was drastically separated with seven of the thirty litres made up of a super-fine sediment. The photo of the bucket shows what remained after we had removed 20L of the juice (picture attached: the small amount of darker liquid is clear with the remainder lighter colour all sediment).

I am not sure why there is so much. The apple mash was pushed through a fine cloth so I had hoped we wouldn't see too much. But I am a little frustrated to have so much liquid tied up in sediment.

We have tried to filter it using four layers of cloth but the output was the same (the photo of the juice in the small glass).

Any suggestions?? Or should we just concede that this is the price you pay for using an apple press?

I have only been pressing my own apples for two years now so someone else with more experience may chime in with better advice.

My take is not to worry about the sediment. Let it ferment as is. For the first part of active fermentation all of that sediment will be stirred up with the ret of the mix anyway. You will rack it off of the worst sediment after the primary ferment has completed. The cider you rack will be cloudy. The sediment and yeast will settle out to the bottom. My hunch is that given some more time, the layer of sediment you saw would compact into a much thinner layer. I've noticed that the line moves down gradually. I may be completely off base but I make the assumption that the residue contains some level of nutrient for the yeast.

Thanks Chivalcider! I was thinking the same. When I dumped what was in that small glass it was impossible to see any solids, so my guess it is likely just part of having a natural juice. I hope it reduces!

My plan is to cut the sediment into 2 x 10L batches I am making, effectively splitting 3.5L of the sediment into each carboy and begin the fermenting process.

I appreciate you writing a response

Why did you put 12 camden tablets in 5 gallons of juice? Have you guys never seen real sweet apple cider before, it always has some sediment. I would say I was worried about you contaminating it with all the unnecessary filtering but with all that camden I dont think you have to worry about that very much. Your next post might be "why wont my fermentation start", possibly because of too much camden if it doesnt start well. Areate this very very well. WVMJ

Hi, WVMJ.

Nope, I'm not crazy. The original juice was 32L of dark pressed juice that had not cleared after 24 hours of sitting in my fridge. I pulled it out to room temp and added 1.5 Camden tablet per gallon (8 gallon x 1.5 = 12 tablets) and after 12 hours I then added pectic enzyme and an antioxidant.

It was 12 hours AFTER the pectic enzyme/ antioxidant that the juice finally cleared and revealed such a high level of sediment. This turned out to be incredibly super fine and so began my questions above.

Nonetheless, I pitched yeast in one 10L litre batch last night and already have healthy yeast activity so clearly my Campden tablets ratio is not in bad shape! I held off on the other 20L in case anyone had advice on the weird sediment. But tonight I just siphoned off the remaining clear juice and will pitch yeast into those batches and try the murky sediment-heavy juice as a test batch!

Who knows....it will probably be the best of the bunch.

Cheers,

OK, so what is the think with 1.5 camden/gallon, are your camdens smaller than normal? or was your juice full or rotten apples and needed a higher dose or were they low on acid? Another way to clear your juice faster if you want to use cleared is to add sulfites right after you pressed out the juice at room temp and add pectinase overnight, but honestly the yeast like the little bits so they can attach to them and float around making more bubbles and it all eventually settles down to the bottom of the primary when the ferment is finished. WVMJ

Your pectic enzyme is causing your juice to start clearing. I always get separation like that with enzyme and it takes a while for solids to settle down tight so it looks like lots of sediment for a while. Just ferment it all. It will all blend for the first bit from fermenting action then settle like normal.

Thanks, WVMJ and Happydad40.

WVMJ - maybe, but I am just following the information on the pack. I prefer to have recipes where everything is in grams (I have a 0.1g scale), so I can't tell you if they are small/big than the average tablet.

I have two carboys fermenting and two that are not (it's been 36 hours since I pitched the yeast). Any suggestions or should I just sit tight and wait to see if it kickstarts later? Any advice on getting it going would be most welcome!

harvo said:

Thanks, WVMJ and Happydad40.

WVMJ - maybe, but I am just following the information on the pack. I prefer to have recipes where everything is in grams (I have a 0.1g scale), so I can't tell you if they are small/big than the average tablet.

I have two carboys fermenting and two that are not (it's been 36 hours since I pitched the yeast). Any suggestions or should I just sit tight and wait to see if it kickstarts later? Any advice on getting it going would be most welcome!

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Stir up the ones that seem sluggish or not active. You want to get some of the sulfite to dissipate and some oxygen to get in there for the yeast.

By the way, what did you add as an antioxidant? Campden tablets themselves work as an antioxidant, but I assume you added ascorbic acid? (which is fine).

Oh, and don't worry about the sediment at this point! It will settle. You will lose quite a bit of cider from the sediment, but that can't be helped.

I made a plum wine a couple of years ago that dropped a ton of sediment for AGES- here's a photo after about two months even after it dropped that much sediment in primary (plum is in the two right carboys in the second photo):




Like you, I had even tried to remove much of the pulpy stuff, but with time it still settled out just fine. Apples aren't quite as bad, but if you really mushed them up with a grinder or something, it can be a mess!

Yooper,
Does that sound like the right dosage of campden for sanitizing fresh pressed apples? I know campden usage for treating chlorine is much lower dosage, but also a different purpose in beer making since we sanitize our wart via temperature. How long would it take for the sulfur fumes to dissipate. Do you think fermenting under pressure and spunding would trap in some of the sulfurous odors and flavors?

MrFancyPlants said:

Yooper,
Does that sound like the right dosage of campden for sanitizing fresh pressed apples? I know campden usage for treating chlorine is much lower dosage, but also a different purpose in beer making since we sanitize our wart via temperature. How long would it take for the sulfur fumes to dissipate. Do you think fermenting under pressure and spunding would trap in some of the sulfurous odors and flavors?

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No, it seems like too much campden. I use the generic "one campden tablet per gallon" or 1/4 teaspoon of the powder for 6 gallons.

It may take a while to dissipate- you want to stir it up to remove it. I never ferment under pressure, as air exchange is important at the beginning, and you want to drive off c02 and not hold it in, so I can't say what would happen in the scenario you describe.

It seems friend you are making this a little more complicated and harder than it needs to be which is why we are asking such questions to help you out. First, what kind of yeast are you using? A little too much sulfite wont hurt a lot if you also areate the must, really really stir up those sluggish ones until you arm aches, you WANT oxygen at the start of the ferment. So maybe a combo of a little high sulfite plus and antioxidant at the same time are making it a little tough on your yeasts. You can combine your musts right now, some from the active ones and some from the sluggish ones by racking them into another container to boost the slower ones. Sediment happens WVMJ