noob questions

I've been lurking for a couple weeks and finally joined the forums. I have a couple dumb questions for you home brew vets.

Someone gave me a pretty decent home brew setup secondhand but never used. Its the kind with two plastic buckets. I haven't tried to brew anything yet. So far I have been reading a lot and collecting bottles. Which brings me to my first question. Is there a particular type of soap that works best for washing the bottles? (I realize that I will have to sanitize them later.) I washed a few out with Dawn w/ bleach alternative, and I swear I could smell a little bit of soap odor even after flushing with clean water three or four times after I saw no more soap bubbles. I also washed some out with a biodegradable soap made with coconut oil I think. I couldn't smell any residue on those. Any thoughts?

My next question is... how long would a homebrewed beer keep at room temp in the dark? I know barleywine keeps for a long time, but other than that, how long would a pale ale or brown ale or wheat beer keep in general?

Thanks, and cheers!

For cleaning bottles I first soak in a TSP solution that cleans and strips the labels. Rinse. Dunk in Starsan solution for 30sec. Empty. Let Dry

Lots of guys use non perfume Oxyclean to clean bottles....I just rinse as I drink. Then there is no crud in them to be dealt with.

Depending on style of beer, and temp regualrity...homebrew lasts forever in bottles at room temp.

BigKahuna said:

Lots of guys use non perfume Oxyclean to clean bottles....I just rinse as I drink. Then there is no crud in them to be dealt with.

Depending on style of beer, and temp regualrity...homebrew lasts forever in bottles at room temp.

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+1 on the rinse as you drink, or at least rinse when you are done drinking. Putting away bottles that still have some gunk in the bottom for a few weeks until you are ready to bottle can lead to some nasty stuff growing which isn't worth the time to get out.

If your bottles have crud in them, soak in oxyclean and hot water for a couple hours. The stuff will wash right out. Don't use soap.

Get some Star San or Idophor for sanitizing. You put the recommended amount in the sink or bucket and just dip and rinse out. No rinsing with water is needed.

I too make it a habit to rinse my bottles out after drinking them. I store them upside down in a box and then only have to sanitize when I need them again.

I have been rinsing out as I go, or at least the following morning. I thought that TSP was fairly toxic. Would TSP substitute work just as well? Thats sounds a lot easier than the way I have been getting the labels off.
I'm glad to hear that beer will keep for a good long time. I have been on a purchase and consume regimen since I started imbibing. I was worried about the longevity of the bottled beers because I don't think I would want to drink 48 of the same brew in a row.
Thanks.

I use oxiclean cause I'm too lazy to rinse as I drink, plus the oxiclean generally strips off the labels pretty well.

After I soak the bottles in oxiclean, I fill the bottle about half full with clean water, use a bottle brush and then rinse twice, which is probably overkill.

I generally do about 12 bottles an evening for 4 days leading up to the day I plan on bottling. Doing it this way keeps it from getting too boring for me.

So as long as I rinse as I go, I don't need any soap? If I got that right that sounds a lot easier. Will the sanitizer remove any small amount of soap residue in the bottles?

I just checked on my sanitizer, its "LD Carlson Co. Easy Clean (No Rinse Cleaner)". There is no ingredient list or anything.

joe6pack said:

I just checked on my sanitizer, its "LD Carlson Co. Easy Clean (No Rinse Cleaner)". There is no ingredient list or anything.

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That's more like oxiclean than a sanitizer. I'd use that for cleaning, and then buy some Iodophor or star-san for sanitizing.

Remember, cleaning and sanitizing are two steps. Anything clean can be sanitized- so a nice rinse of clean equipment may be enough. Anything not clean should be cleaned first, rinsed, then sanitized. I keep my equipment clean, so on brew or bottling day, I just rinse off any specks of dust, and then sanitize with a no-rinse sanitizer. I use star-san the most, but I've used Iodophor and one-step, too.

Good to know. I was planning on taking the whole thing to my local brew supply house and asking them what I need. I'll be sure and get some proper sanitizer then as well.

Go with starsan. Personally i find it much easier because iodine always freaked me out and with idophore you have to let it airdry.

As for the brew sitting at room temp, i picked up a fridge off craigslist where i keep my brew. I have some sitting inside at room temp from many batches ago possibly as far away as a year and they still taste fine. I wouldnt worry about it but my house doesnt usually get over 78 degrees.

Rinse as you go. It takes about 5-10 seconds per bottle, and you don't have to think about doing it again. It's just part of pouring a beer. If you are outside or someplace where rinsing isn't so easy, do what you can, but remember that it only takes a speck of something in a bottle to mess things up. While I do not get too concerned about something dropping into my wort, I do worry about how clean my bottles are. The only stuff that can live in bottle dregs is stuff that WILL infect your beer.

Yes, if you rinse properly and immediately, you shouldn't need any soap or other cleaner. If you want some sort of cleaner, though, go with Oxiclean or PBW or something else blessed for brewing applications.

I wholeheartedly agree with sanitizing with iodophor or StarSan. Personally, I tend to fill up a five gallon bucket with properly diluted iodophor solution and use that. I just let the bottles drip dry for a short time on my dishwasher rack or dish drying rack. They do not have to be completely dry, but you do not want to go straight from the bucket to filling, or you could get off-flavors.


TL

I get Grolsch bottles from a local distributor and will soak them overnight in a solution of bleach. It gets all the lovely stuff growing in the bottles out and pretty much removes the labels. Any label stuff left comes off with a scotch-brite pad. I rinse these bottles off and store upside down till it's time to sanitize and use. After use, a quick rinse and then on to my botttle tree to dry.

Oxyclean in warm water for an hour or two will take the labels right off.

I don't have to let my equipment dry when using Idophor. The bottles I soak in a sink of water and Idophor and fill right up on bottling day. I agree that if you use too much you will have off flavors like Tex said. The key is that if the water isn't clear after adding Idophor, then you used too much. For my equipment I fill a spray bottle with 1/8 teaspoon of Idophor and water. I spray everything down and use right away. I have yet to have an infection from doing this.

I'll try this easy clean stuff to see if the labels come off any easier than my previous method of water soak and scraping with a dull kitchen knife. I'm sure it can't be worse.
My empties are in an old buffet cabinet right now right side up. Is this a bad way to store them? Sounds like I'll need to rewash them anyway b/c I used soap.
This is getting ahead of myself, but say I have them cleaned with this easy clean stuff... when I go to bottle, all I will need to do is spray the inside with a little starsan solution and fill 'er up?

scinerd3000 said:

Go with starsan. Personally i find it much easier because iodine always freaked me out and with idophore you have to let it airdry.

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Iopdophor does not have to dry. As long as it has been in contact at the correct solution strength (a cheap syringe can be your friend!) it is perfectly fine.

As for off flavors, you'd really have to use a lot to get that. If you use it correctly, it is undetectable. And iodine isn't bad. They put it in salt for a reason.

joe6pack said:

This is getting ahead of myself, but say I have them cleaned with this easy clean stuff... when I go to bottle, all I will need to do is spray the inside with a little starsan solution and fill 'er up?

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If you have a dishwasher I find it easier to set the dishwasher to sanitize (don't use detergent) and let the bottles go through that. While that is running I get my bottling equipment all setup and as soon as it is done I start bottling. Works very well for me with very little mess.

kaptk2 said:

If you have a dishwasher I find it easier to set the dishwasher to sanitize (don't use detergent) and let the bottles go through that. While that is running I get my bottling equipment all setup and as soon as it is done I start bottling. Works very well for me with very little mess.

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Only problem I can see with that is if the water doesn't shoot up into the bottle very well. If you just dip the bottle in Star San or Idophor so that it fills up and then dump it, you are done. Takes only a couple minutes to do a whole case. I normally put three to four bottles in at a time and hold them under water so they fill up about half way. I then shake the water around, dump it, and then bottle the beer.

Hmmmm, I have a dishwasher, but its pretty old. I doubt that it has a sanitize setting. Can you just run it high heat and no detergent for the same effect?

joe6pack said:

I'll try this easy clean stuff to see if the labels come off any easier than my previous method of water soak and scraping with a dull kitchen knife. I'm sure it can't be worse.
My empties are in an old buffet cabinet right now right side up. Is this a bad way to store them? Sounds like I'll need to rewash them anyway b/c I used soap.
This is getting ahead of myself, but say I have them cleaned with this easy clean stuff... when I go to bottle, all I will need to do is spray the inside with a little starsan solution and fill 'er up?

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Yes it is that simple. Oh ya, if you use Star San it will foam up. Don't worry about the foam, it is okay to bottle right on top of it.

Good thread - I have a stack of bottles I was holding till I found the best way to clean them (read:lazy lazy lazy) - and wandering in here I got all I need to know to get them done.

Thanks to all that posted

carnevoodoo said:

Iopdophor does not have to dry. As long as it has been in contact at the correct solution strength (a cheap syringe can be your friend!) it is perfectly fine.

As for off flavors, you'd really have to use a lot to get that. If you use it correctly, it is undetectable. And iodine isn't bad. They put it in salt for a reason.

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I have both iodine and starsan and on the bottle of iodine solution says to let it airdry... I only use it to check for starch conversion and thats it. Starsan just sits in a garden sprayer so its much easier and it doesn't stain my clothes. Long live salt

scinerd3000 said:

I have both iodine and starsan and on the bottle of iodine solution says to let it airdry... I only use it to check for starch conversion and thats it. Starsan just sits in a garden sprayer so its much easier and it doesn't stain my clothes. Long live salt

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The bottle does say air dry, but you don't have to. I just spray with a spray bottle and go. I have never had an infection.
Think about it, have you ever had stitches before? They scrub the area with idodine and then start stitching away. They don't leave and come back after it is dried.

Seems like everyone has weighed in on this; my 2 cents.

just the other day, I let 12 bottles soak in Oxyclean (free) overnight, sliiped the labels off the next morning. Some came off easier (New Belgium) but they all came off quite easily.

I have PBW--powedered brewery wash--but use oxyclean to clean my equipment.

As a more experienced n00b (I guess I'm still a noob), I have found 2 items useful in regards to cleaning and sanitizing bottles: a bottle tree for drainiing cleaned / sanitized bottles, and a vinator, which shoots sanitizer up into bottles. Next time I'm trying the dishwasher--sans detergent--to sanitize bottles.

I use Star San for sanitizing. Since it works well, is reusable and no rinse, I will keep using it. Highly recommended.

DutchK9 said:

The bottle does say air dry, but you don't have to. I just spray with a spray bottle and go. I have never had an infection.
Think about it, have you ever had stitches before? They scrub the area with idodine and then start stitching away. They don't leave and come back after it is dried.

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actually thats a good point which i never considered.

Let me preface this with again stating I have never done this before, but you wouldn't (hopefully) be licking those stitches to see if you can taste iodine. It just seems like you taste iodine, but I don't know.

I think I will continue to wash like I have been, then run them thru the dishwasher before hand and then spray with sanitizer and drain before bottling.

I need to pick up one of those vinators and a bottle tree before I bottle.

joe6pack said:

Let me preface this with again stating I have never done this before, but you wouldn't (hopefully) be licking those stitches to see if you can taste iodine. It just seems like you taste iodine, but I don't know.

I think I will continue to wash like I have been, then run them thru the dishwasher before hand and then spray with sanitizer and drain before bottling.

I need to pick up one of those vinators and a bottle tree before I bottle.

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You can do whatever you want- but washing, running through the dishwasher, and then sanitizer sounds like way too much work to me. I'd skip the dishwasher. Why wash clean bottles?

I do a batch of bottles in under 10 minutes. I'm bottling 11 gallons of wine on Thursday- that's about 60 bottles, I think. No way I'd do that much work on them. They are already clean, so they just get a squirt with the vinator and up on the bottle tree. If they're dusty or something, I'll rinse with water first.

Even if you rinse as you go it can't hurt to give bottles a soak in oxyclean. Its cheap insurance. Follow that with the minute soak in Star San and you'll be good to go!

Saw this question in another thread when I searched for the question, but it wasn't answered. Anyone know if easy clean and one step are the same thing? No ingredients listed on my easy clean tub. I have been using easy clean as a sanitizer, but after reading this thread, I think I'll switch to star san. Just wondering though.