Orange Chocolate Port Wine Kit + Honey = Pyment!

I've been wanting to do a pyment for a while, but I didn't want to go half arsed....so last night at the LHBS I decided to buy a kit that Iv'e seen and wanted to make for a while - Orange Chocolate Port.

I haven't cracked the box to read instructions, but from what I'm remembering of these kits, they make a smaller amount of wine (3g? 4g?) than the normal 6g wine kit.

I'm planning on ramping this SOB up with honey instead of sugar (I assume that instructions say to add sugar since the other kits do).

Anyone do this with a wine kit (or a smaller port kit)? Any ideas of amounts of honey must to add to the wine must to end up with 5-6g of awesome pyment?

I'll probably do this in the next 2-3 weeks, so I'd like to read up and get opinions before I do this by ear and screw up a $95 wine kit + $30-40 in honey.

I have made the Orange Chocolate Port kit and the kit according to instructions turns out very nice. It is a three gallon kit. Along this same vein I took a Okonagan Peach Ice Wine kit and added six pounds of honey and enough water to make five gallons. When I racked to secondary I added 3 pounds of Peach Puree. It is still in the works but is showing a lot of promise. It tastes verry good though still a bit harsh-can hardly wait until it has some age on it.

The honey will screw it up. I don't know what kind of kits you've made in the past but I've made a couple dozen at least and none have said to add sugar. I made the OC Port about three years ago and I know for sure there was no sugar addition. There is an "F-pack" (about 1-2 quarts of very sweet orange chocolate flavored juice) in foil that you add once fermentation is complete. If you leave it out there'll be no chocolate flavor. Make the OC kit on it's own, following the instructions, and you won't be disappointed. Leave the honey out.

summersolstice said:

The honey will screw it up. I don't know what kind of kits you've made in the past but I've made a couple dozen at least and none have said to add sugar. I made the OC Port about three years ago and I know for sure there was no sugar addition. There is an "F-pack" (about 1-2 quarts of very sweet orange chocolate flavored juice) in foil that you add once fermentation is complete. If you leave it out there'll be no chocolate flavor. Make the OC kit on it's own, following the instructions, and you won't be disappointed. Leave the honey out.

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I swear I saw wine kits where it's a can of juice + add your own sugar (sorta like the kit and a kilo beer kits) to make your wine must. I assumed this was similar.

As much as I'd like to just "make it" - I'm really looking for a pyment, and looking for something like 5g in the end. Shoulda bought a cheaper kit for that I guess.

summersolstice said:

The honey will screw it up. I don't know what kind of kits you've made in the past but I've made a couple dozen at least and none have said to add sugar. I made the OC Port about three years ago and I know for sure there was no sugar addition. There is an "F-pack" (about 1-2 quarts of very sweet orange chocolate flavored juice) in foil that you add once fermentation is complete. If you leave it out there'll be no chocolate flavor. Make the OC kit on it's own, following the instructions, and you won't be disappointed. Leave the honey out.

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Actually, I think this sounds interesting. What he's wanting to do is take a 3g wine kit and use it as a base to make 5g of pyment. It sounds like a great idea to try out to me. He's not just adding honey to the regular volume of the kit.

Jezter - I replied to your other post and now that I think about it there may have been a small sugar addition to step-feed and boost the gravity. There's also a sweet "f-pack" that adds a lot of sweetness but is also the source of the orange and chocolate flavor. Because the gravity is so high already and the sugar addition, if any, is so small you just couldn't add enough honey to this kit to add any honey or mead essence.

The thing is, with the concentrated grape juice base, this is already a high gravity kit and any amount of honey that would be enough to taste in a finished product would most certainly take it over the top and into the realm of defeating the yeast. You wouldn't believe how strong the chocolate is in this kit. You can hold a glass at arm's length and smell the chocolate. I don't see how any amount of honey could overcome that much aroma and flavor. If you attempted to dilute it to five gallons, then you're reducing the orange and chocolate and again defeating the best part of the kit.

summersolstice said:

Because the gravity is so high already and the sugar addition, if any, is so small you just couldn't add enough honey to this kit to add any honey or mead essence.

The thing is, this is already a high gravity kit and any amount of honey that would be enough to taste in a finished product would most certainly take it over the top and into the realm of defeating the yeast.

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Even if he's increasing the volume by 2/3?

yeah, the point is not to add honey alone, it would be to add 2g of honey must to make this a pyment. Although likely not technically as it's not 51% honey fermentables...it would at least be somewhat close.

I'm sure I won't get a lot of honey flavor, it maybe enough to balance out (again, at least a little) the grape flavor a bit with other flavors.

If the chocolate/orange is as strong as you say, then I think a moderate honey addition to dilute that might make it more balanced instead of in-yo-face chocolate.

But I still feel that if you make the kit as directed and use the honey to make a traditional mead you'd have better success with your results. However, as Pete at gotmead is often heard to say, "Take a chance - Custer did!"

I'm still interested in the basic idea. Do you think it would be possible to use another wine kit as a base to make a pyment?

You know, if I was going to try this I think I'd go with a white wine kit or even a white "mist-style" kit. The flavor of the juice is mild and wouldn't overwhelm the honey. I use Alexander's concentrates all the time in pyments and I think I have 4 of them in various pre-bottling stages and quite a few bottles on the shelf. The Alexander's concentrates are inexpensive and require sugar additions anyway and they're great for this purpose.

Couldn't you make the port kit per it's directions and make a mead with the honey, then blend the two after fermentation and get basically the same thing?

Yes, but you still have the problem of the orange chocolate overwhelming the blend unless you really tipped it toward a large mead percentage and then you'd have a light colored mead with just a hint of orange and chocolate. Nothing wrong with that and I think it would be preferable since you could blend in small amounts but still have two original products that would stand well on their own.

I have heard a podcast on basicbrewing.com where he refers to making a pyment from a Pinot Noir wine kit. He explains in detail how he does it and claims the results have been very well recieved by his friends.