Malt, sugar, and cider?

KK, with the Oak Experiment under wraps and another solid cider in the fermenters, I went scrounging for something to play with. Came up with this...

4 gallons apple juice (not cider)
3 pounds organic sugar
1 pound light DME
1 Pack Nottingham Ale yeast.

No idea how this will work out but am curious - is that too much DME/sugar for a 4 gallon batch? Any suggestions on random additives which might compliment the mix?

What was your OG? You may have underpitched.

Haven't started yet, just collecting ingredients (a small bag of oatmeal has found it's way into the pile as well).

Gottcha. I'm a big fan of adding honey to my ciders.

I recently did an apfelwien with 4lb honey and 1.5lb of corn sugar. Used 2 packets of Notty yeast. Tasted great when I bottled it on Sunday. OG 1.103 FG 1.020

Have you brewed the honey apfelwien before? I'm thinking about trying something like that, but I'm not sure if there'd be a honey taste or if it would all just ferment out into apfel booze.

Adding honey is called a cyser, kind of like a beer and mead is a braggot.

Personally, I dislike adding anything. More sugar = more alcohol = less apple flavor.

CandleWineProject said:

Adding honey is called a cyser, kind of like a beer and mead is a braggot.

Personally, I dislike adding anything. More sugar = more alcohol = less apple flavor.

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This.

besides adjusting the tannin/acid content of the juice I stick to the formula juice + yeast + time = tasty cider.

Freezeblade said:

This.
besides adjusting the tannin/acid content of the juice I stick to the formula juice + yeast + time = tasty cider.

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Ah yes, Freezeblade caught what I really meant - I don't like adding sugars for fermenting cider. But there are plenty out there who do it.

If I dont use any malts I use 1 LB Light Brown Sugar + 5 gallons of Apple Juice, this makes a nice ~7.5% ABV cider which clears well and is not overly boozy. OG ~ 1.060, FG ~ 1.000. Any more sugar than that and it is a bit over kill and requires prolonged aging (6 mos). My typical house cider is 1 Light Brown Sugar, +yeast nutrient, +5G Motts AJ, + 3 week on Nottingham Yeast @ 62F ambient temp. This stuff rocks.

I recently just did a cider similiar to your idea. I think you have a bit to much sugar in your recipe. I did a mini mash of 2 Lbs Pale/Wheat Malt, +1 LB Caramel Malt (20L) in 1 gallon of water. Once this cooled I added it to 5 gallons of Apple Juice and fermented for 3 weeks using Nottingham. OG was 1.056 (.016 from the malts), and FG was 1.005. The Caramel malt left a nice subtle sweetness and mild caramel flavor. Final ABV ~ 6.6%, 2.5G batch.

I would think you could do the same type of thing with 1 Lb of Light or Amber DME, <or> 1 Lb of Light DME + 1 Lb of steeped caramel malt in 1 G of water, cool and add to 4G of Apple Juice. Dont steep with AJ, use water. This should give you about 7% abv. You could add more DME if you want more ABV, but I would not add suagr with DME, just use all malt/DME. Amber DME works nice because it has some Caramel malt already in it. 2 LBS of Amber DME would work well for 5 gallons of juice.

unclejimbay said:

I would think you could do the same type of thing with 1 Lb of Light or Amber DME, <or> 1 Lb of Light DME + 1 Lb of steeped caramel malt in 1 G of water, cool and add to 4G of Apple Juice. Dont steep with AJ, use water.

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This is because it changes the flavor of the apple juice, so it tastes cooked.

Great stuff. Going to go with 1lb light DME/.5lb caramel (in water) added to 4 gal juice. Thank you much

If it was me I would go for 1Lb Light DME and a full 1 Lb of Caramel Malt. Expect it to finish at 1.000 FG with a very sublte caramel malt sweetness.

YMMV, but I am about 20+ batches of cider in so far, and I would do a pound of each.

Hope this helps.

Cheers, but have just finished making the plunge before reading the latest reply.

Went with -
1lb light DME in 1 gal water
1/2lb organic brown sugar
4gals juice
as original recipe was already modified, decided to go to town and added 1 cup of oats to see what it does to the mouth.

Caramel malt on order so back to the original concept next weekend with 1lb DME and 1lb caramel for 5gals.

Thanks all.

I vote it will be deelish as you made it. Glad to see others enjoying the cider bug as it's so easy as a brew alternative when time is limited...

Try a 5 gallon batch in the future with 1 or 2 LBs of Caramel 20L or 60L. It is going to be my new go to with the 60L.