Advice on my first (literal) blow off or blow up

Just finished getting my True Brew "Dark German Lager" kit together yesterday in the 6 gallon plastic carboy.

Now, I've used this carboy once or twice before without much trouble. I've also had problems with foam during fermentation where I had to hook a length of hose from the airlock hole to a bucket. I can't remember if that was with this newer carboy or one of my brew buckets.

Anyway, everything was going great with this beer, and when I went to bed last night, airlock was already bubbling along, and there was a thin layers of healthy looking foam on top of the wort. I also have some airspace in there , as it's a little less than 5 gallons of wort in a 6 gallon carboy.

Well, apparently things literally took off overnight. Woke up to a stiff foam covered carboy. The cork and airlock literally blew off! found it in the corner. Dried foam residue on the ceiling, walls, my diploma, etc. I was shocked, but I'll get over it

In the meantime, I soaked the dirty cork and airlock in pbw, sanitized and replaced. However, as soon as I put it back on, it's REALLY bubbling. Now, I don't see any foam up to the top yet. However, there was a good amount still layered in the carboy.

Should I forget the lock for now, and just hookup some kind of blow off tube? Could this have messed up this brew? Thanks for any help!

I would put a blow off tube on. I would also check the temperature of the beer in the fermentor. Very vigorous fermentations can mean the temperature of the fermenting beer is to high.

forget the airlock for now. Set up a blow off tube.

scroll down to the bottom of this link to see how:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=288032


Your beer should be fine since the foam and gas should be forcing everything out and not allowing anything into the beer.

Thanks for the quick reply. It's going to take me a bit to locate something to use for a blowoff. (no narrow tubing around). I remember I had this problem before.

There isn't foam coming out of the airlock yet, but it's only been on for about 1/2 hour. I don't really have an easy way to check temp as my thermometer has a shorter probe. Putting my hand on the side of the carboy, it feels cool/room temp. Would I be able to feel it if it was too warm?

If you don't have anything to use for blowoff tubing then just put some loose sanitized foil over the top, so the krausen can just come out and overflow. Not a big deal besides the mess ti makes.

mrorange38 said:

Thanks for the quick reply. It's going to take me a bit to locate something to use for a blowoff. (no narrow tubing around). I remember I had this problem before.

There isn't foam coming out of the airlock yet, but it's only been on for about 1/2 hour. I don't really have an easy way to check temp as my thermometer has a shorter probe. Putting my hand on the side of the carboy, it feels cool/room temp. Would I be able to feel it if it was too warm?

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just stick a thermometer in the same area as the carboy. The wort / beer will be 3 - 5 degrees warmer than ambient temp. Depending on yeast and style, you may want to create a swamp cooler / water bath to cool it off.

mhurst111 said:

just stick a thermometer in the same area as the carboy. The wort / beer will be 3 - 5 degrees warmer than ambient temp. Depending on yeast and style, you may want to create a swamp cooler / water bath to cool it off.

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Well, I know I should have one, but I don't have a longer probe thermometer. Just a cheap digital one with a probe a few inches long. Won't reach to the wort. I have some longer ones for grilling, but they aren't very accurate.

Home Depot has the 1.25" tubing you can buy for a blowoff, unsure if that link showed it, didn't read it.

Are you using a 3 piece cup in a cup type airlock? Have you clipped off the little strainer piece on the bottom of the probe in the airlock bung (cork)? That will cause some limitations in flow and clogging.

mrorange38 said:

Well, I know I should have one, but I don't have a longer probe thermometer. Just a cheap digital one with a probe a few inches long. Won't reach to the wort. I have some longer ones for grilling, but they aren't very accurate.

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He means just lay it on the ground near the fermenter, not necessarily in it.

christyle said:

He means just lay it on the ground near the fermenter, not necessarily in it.

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Exactly.

Just get air temperature and add a few degrees. If it's like my house, it's probably 73-76 air temp, which means the beer is around 77-80 degrees which is too warm, unless making a saison / belgian / wheat.

Well, it looks like it might be getting too warm Hope nothing is ruined so far.

Put in my digital therm in the hole in the cork. Took awhile, but climbed up to 81. Ambient temp outside the carboy is about 67. Should I put this whole thing in my keg fridge?

Forgot to add, I pitched a fresh pack of cooper's ale yeast at about 72deg. I guess I should've gone lower on the pitch temp for this.

You can let it go, but you probably won't want to drink it. I'm anticipating sweet bubble gum type flavors. Try getting something like this for future brews:

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B008EKD7CQ/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

christyle said:

You can let it go, but you probably won't want to drink it. I'm anticipating sweet bubble gum type flavors. Try getting something like this for future brews:

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B008EKD7CQ/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

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Really? oh man . This was a replacement for the last batch that was completely destroyed. Another $30, and a lot of work out the door. Wouldn't trying to cool it down now help, or has damage already been done?

I don't know if this helps any, but I am pretty sure the ambient temp was off with the cheap digital therm. I'm in florida, and keep my thermo at about 81 almost all the time (it has problems in different rooms keeping temp). The carboy happens to be within a few feet of the thermostat and near the closest vent. When I went back to check again, the therm was showing 79 deg or so. That's probably the ambient temp, and this is where I've always brewed at. Put it back in the cork, and it shows 81 again, so it would seem the wort is only about 2-3 deg higher ... but is that still too high? I've never taken measures in the past to control fermentation temperature. Have made some tasty beers this way, but they were all mostly done in a bucket.

Yes, that's still too high for almost all yeasts unless you like the associated fruity/bubblegum off flavors.

Basically there's no point in being serious about brewing without a dedicated temperature controlled setup. Whether that's a swamp cooler and swapping out 2L bottles, a fridge/freezer, A/C box, pump and ice water or glycol etc, a basement that's low-mid 60s year round.

80+ degrees F is too warm for most ales. Not all, mind you, but most.

Wouldn't trying to cool it down now help, or has damage already been done?

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Most of the active fermentation is complete, yes? That's when you want to keep it at its coolest. Heck, even if it is just the first 12 hours at too-high temps can create bad beer. Ask me how I know this.

I'm going to guess your better beers were made in the winter months? Check your yeast information, it should give ideal fermentation temps. Coopers Ale says 62-72, so you are far too high. If those are the temps you have to work with, stick to saisons, wits or funkier beers and you may be ok. Just know most beers (not all) should be under 70. You NEED to invest in some method of temperature control to get drinkable beers for your climate.

I do know my beers all seem to take awhile longer to age up (some up to two months). Kind of wish I had stuck to the old ice crash method for cooling wort. In those cases I wound up pitching way below temp, and sometimes with ice literally in the wort.

I do find what you guys are saying a bit surprising though, because the ambient temp of the house/room hasn't changed much at all over the years, and this is the first time I'm learning about controlling fermentation temp. I really only knew bout that for lagers before, but I never made a lager.

I just dumped out a storage box here of shoes that can fit the carboy. Filled the bottom up with water and some of the ice I have. Going to put a wet t on it. I believe about 16 hours or so have passed (maybe less) , but airlock is still bubbling constantly. I also have no more foam since the explosion. At least, not yet. I wonder if I can help it by cooling down now?

Cooling it down now will prevent any further off-flavours from starting, but it won't help any that have already formed.

I will say, if you make beer that you like, no reason to change anything. But, I think we are saying you will probably like your beers even more if you can control the temps while fermenting.

slym2none said:

Most of the active fermentation is complete, yes? That's when you want to keep it at its coolest. Heck, even if it is just the first 12 hours at too-high temps can create bad beer. Ask me how I know this.

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I'm quite surprised you never knew about controlling fermentation temps, it's near the top of every respectable brewer's list of "must-do's". I suggest reading some of the intro articles off the home page, they will get you a lot of information about starting brewing.

christyle said:

I'm quite surprised you never knew about controlling fermentation temps, it's near the top of every respectable brewer's list of "must-do's". I suggest reading some of the intro articles off the home page, they will get you a lot of information about starting brewing.

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Slow down. I've only been doing this part time for 7 years or so. Never said I was a fast learner Some of it could be that I like to drink and smoke when I brew, as it's usually the only time I have to do that. Must have been how I missed that pitching temp again. I could've gotten it down to 60! For some reason I thought low 70's was good. Then again, the directions in these true brew kits are "generic" and can be quite confusing if you are actually trying to follow them and don't have things memorized.

slym2none said:

Cooling it down now will prevent any further off-flavours from starting, but it won't help any that have already formed.

I will say, if you make beer that you like, no reason to change anything. But, I think we are saying you will probably like your beers even more if you can control the temps while fermenting.

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Just read somewhere that cooper's dry ale yeast tend to be "forgiving" on temp. I know I've done a lot of cooper's kit. I wonder if that was it ? Actually, kind of hoping

This one I pitched w/o a starter too. Just right in carboy and shook up a bit. Not sure if that would make things better or worse at this point.

mrorange38 said:

Must have been how I missed that pitching temp again. I could've gotten it down to 60! For some reason I thought low 70's was good.

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Don't forget, pitching temp is one thing, but what temp you can hold it at during fermentation is the important part. The beer will generate some heat through fermentation, and pick up heat from it's surroundings if it's higher than the beer, so you may pitch at 60, but it will quickly get up into the 70s-80s if you don't control the ambient temp.

christyle said:

Don't forget, pitching temp is one thing, but what temp you can hold it at during fermentation is the important part. The beer will generate some heat through fermentation, and pick up heat from it's surroundings if it's higher than the beer, so you may pitch at 60, but it will quickly get up into the 70s-80s if you don't control the ambient temp.

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Thanks. I get that now, but my point was I have never controlled fermentation temps, and have made good beer for my taste. I used to just freeze about 2 of the gallons of water for the worst, and use that to cool it. After pitching, the bucket or carboy just sits in the house here at room temp about 79deg. Always had a hard time getting higher gravity though...

I also had this batch from last year that came out with a really nasty chemical/cleaner taste that never went away. I think it was an expired cooper's kit, but I didn't take good notes. Tasted it almost a year later, and it was super clear. I had left my CO2 on, and so still carbonated, but STILL had that nasty taste. At that point, I dumped it in the yard. Not sure if that could've been an effect from too high ferment temps, or accidentally getting some coil cleaner in the brew, which is something I've been thinking may have happened

christyle said:

I'm quite surprised you never knew about controlling fermentation temps, it's near the top of every respectable brewer's list of "must-do's". I suggest reading some of the intro articles off the home page, they will get you a lot of information about starting brewing.

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That was my very first batch. I'm still a noob, but 7 months of reading this forum (& 8 more batches of beer) taught me quite a bit.

So, thanks for the advice, but you're a little late.

mrorange38 said:

Just read somewhere that cooper's dry ale yeast tend to be "forgiving" on temp. I know I've done a lot of cooper's kit. I wonder if that was it ? Actually, kind of hoping

This one I pitched w/o a starter too. Just right in carboy and shook up a bit. Not sure if that would make things better or worse at this point.

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Again, most yeast will work at 80 degrees, but what the beer tastes like is where the question comes in. Coopers is more forgiving, I think they say 76 or 78 for a max temp, though. Even then, fermenting at a lower temp will make the beer "cleaner" tasting, i.e., less esters & off-flavours.

Sorry, re-reading I see how that was misconstrued. I was using your prior post to show him you had already answered his question, that cooling it down after the bulk of fermentation had completed would not solve the problem of off flavors, if present.

mrorange38 said:

This one I pitched w/o a starter too. Just right in carboy and shook up a bit.

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Maybe you're talking about rehydrating rather than a starter? Rehydration should be done at controlled temperatures, too. If it isn't done right, it's probably worse than just pitching dry.

I noticed that the Fermentis US-05 dry yeast website calls for pitching into at least 68F wort if pitching dry. I rehydrate, so I don't know if that temperature is really important or not, but be careful about over chilling, especially if dry pitching.

ncbrewer said:

Maybe you're talking about rehydrating rather than a starter? Rehydration should be done at controlled temperatures, too. If it isn't done right, it's probably worse than just pitching dry.

I noticed that the Fermentis US-05 dry yeast website calls for pitching into at least 68F wort if pitching dry. I rehydrate, so I don't know if that temperature is really important or not, but be careful about over chilling, especially if dry pitching.

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The wort may have been as low as 70deg at pitch. I measured in the pot, then about 5 mins later or so, transferred to the carboy. I actually forgot to pitch for I think 10-15 mins or more (whiskey:cross, and then I finally pitched it. Not sure how much cooler it would've gotten in that time frame or if I estimated lower/higher.

I think I need to learn more on how to spot the fusel and other flavors that may be from too high ferment temp. In the past, I've noticed almost all off flavor problems were solved by simply letting the beer sit longer. I used to pull from my primary in no more than two weeks. Now, I leave it in the primary as long as I can stand it, then move to corny keg, force carb, and taste in about a day.

Well, got it down to 72 with the ice/water/t-shirt method. Not sure if I'll be able to maintain or go any lower, but I'll try.

Has anyone had specific experience with cooper's ale yeast and higher temp fermenting?

Had to correct from OP.

This isn't a "lager" kit. It's this "german dark" style kit. Not sure if it will handle any off flavors better being a dark german style beer. I know I detect some sweet flavors and different bits when drinking something like beck's dark.

http://bsghandcraft.com/index.php/b...edient-kits/german-style-dark-tb-ing-kit.html

Understood, you still should avoid fermenting at temps above the given range to achieve desirable results.

http://www.midwestsupplies.com/cooper-s-ale-15-grams.html

"Ferments between 62 and 72 F."

christyle said:

Understood, you still should avoid fermenting at temps above the given range to achieve desirable results.

http://www.midwestsupplies.com/cooper-s-ale-15-grams.html

"Ferments between 62 and 72 F."

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I know, just some wishful thinking here. Trying to see if it's likely to be trashed. I can't remember the last partial mash kit I did, but I know I've done at least one or two like this , and I think they turned out. I can let this one age up in the primary up until first week of november or so , if necessary. Although, I was shooting for halloween for both that i have brewing.

I would just pull a sample with a well sanitized method and see how it tastes now, if you taste an off flavor, it will take some time to age out, if ever. We can all speculate, but a sanitary sample will be your best bet. With the temp you're at, it's probably got enough alcohol to fend off any stray bacteria from a sampling.

christyle said:

I would just pull a sample with a well sanitized method and see how it tastes now, if you taste an off flavor, it will take some time to age out, if ever. We can all speculate, but a sanitary sample will be your best bet. With the temp you're at, it's probably got enough alcohol to fend off any stray bacteria from a sampling.

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I think I'll try that after I find a turkey baster or something else easy to pull up some with. Sometimes I think occasional cigar smoking has kinda of messed up my tastebuds for doing stuff like tasting flat beer or wort. I couldn't discern the burned flavor in that last batch I accidentally ruined, but she could smell a "burnt" smell even pouring it out in the yard.

I know I'll know if it's good or not after I carb and chill in a few weeks!

I highly recommend investing in a wine thief.

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00186ADYS/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

mrorange38 said:

Well, got it down to 72 with the ice/water/t-shirt method. Not sure if I'll be able to maintain or go any lower, but I'll try.

Has anyone had specific experience with cooper's ale yeast and higher temp fermenting?

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My very first beer ever, I pitched Cooper's yeast into 95 degree wort. I had it down to 64 after about 12 hours, and when it was done, it had this very unpleasant "sweetness" to it. Like bad candy. It wasn't undrinkable (one buddy said it was better than Budweiser & asked "how much for a 6er?") but it wasn't right.

I imagine you won't be as bad off as I was, just the fruity esters will be more pronounced.

slym2none said:

My very first beer ever, I pitched Cooper's yeast into 95 degree wort. I had it down to 64 after about 12 hours, and when it was done, it had this very unpleasant "sweetness" to it. Like bad candy. It wasn't undrinkable (one buddy said it was better than Budweiser & asked "how much for a 6er?") but it wasn't right.

I imagine you won't be as bad off as I was, just the fruity esters will be more pronounced.

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Yeah, I don't think I've ever pitched that high, because the method of chilling I used before was ice. I do remember checking temps, but I don't remember what temp I checked for. It would probably be the one given in the cooper's and other mix instructions.

What's bugging me more is the fermentation temperature, because depending on how long the melting ice kept temps down, I do believe most of my beers would've reached at or near ambient temp, or 77-81deg.

From other stuff I have read, a lot of this ferment and pitch temp sensitivity depends on the yeast.

I just did a taste test on this week+ old cooper's "real ale" I put in my bucket. On that one, I also sort of screwed up and wound up melting my "cooling water" before finishing. So, I put the bucket in the keg for a good 24+ hours. I had also broke my hydro yet again, so didn't even bother to check temp or gravity... but I'm pretty sure it was quite cool after being in the fridge all that time. Pulling some off the top in a shot glass. Looks clear. Tasted OK for flat still green beer, and even had some hint of carbonation, though I'm not sure how. I guess I'll compare that to when I taste test this "german dark"