Propane or Electric

I'm breaking a golden rule here.....I'm not even gonna search for a good electric set up here because I know I will spend hours trawling through all the results.

Can someone point me to the best resource on here for an electric BK setup please?

arturo7 said:

Interesting approach Cptn, using both propane and electric. What size is your brew kettle? Do you use a 240v heater?

I'm wondering if I use the hybrid method, can I get away with a 110v heater to keep the boil rolling?

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I use a 15 gallon keggle to boil in. My heatstick uses a 2000w 110v water heater element. One stick will hold a rolling boil, but it takes two to get it to a boil (or a propane burner).

If you do make two 110v heatsticks, you will have to run them on two separate 20AMP circuits. One circuit will not handle the load.

Be SURE to use a GFCI. Electricity and water mix TOO well.

One more thing, if you use this hybrid method, you have to make sure the cord for the heatstick is kept away from the propane heat.

Laughing_Gnome_Invisible said:

I'm breaking a golden rule here.....I'm not even gonna search for a good electric set up here because I know I will spend hours trawling through all the results.

Can someone point me to the best resource on here for an electric BK setup please?

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Meh, here is one of many

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f11/bling-bling-electric-herms-conversion-93217/

The Pol said:

Meh, here is one of many

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f11/bling-bling-electric-herms-conversion-93217/

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That's the one I would have pointed to, got me to go electric.

I use propane and my system is automated ( more or less) Ventilation is not an issue for me in my garage and if you use the right burners than the noise is not an issue either>

Using a high BTU burner with a large surface area will keep the noise down.

I have used a few different propane burners. My first wast a JET burner that was very noisy and terribly inefficient. My next burner wasn't quite as noisy, but still used up the propane.

My latest build uses the Bayou Classic Banjo Burners



Almost silent. I can easily hear the water feature in my neighbor's front yard pumping away while the burner is on. 210,000 BTU for around $40.00.

1 pound of propane creates about 25,000 BTU.

210,000 BTU cant be cheap to run.

I will stick with electric.

conpewter said:

The cord I bought was a 15' cord that has an inline GFCI, it is a very beefy cord. Kal bought one as well.

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Any chance you have pictures of said inline GFCI? I wonder if an inline GFCI could be safely used if connected to the outlet behind an electric range.

30A Ground Fault Interrupt Plug GFI CordCable FREE SHIP - eBay (item 110302613578 end time May-19-09 11:23:22 PDT)

That's the one I bought. They accepted an best offer of $70 for it, I've heard they accepted a $60 offer from someone else too.

It is a lot beefier than it looks in the pic. The GFCI part you see is more than 1' long and probably 5" wide.


30 Amp, 4 Wire, 8 Gauge, 17 Feet, includes male plug
CSA-NRTL/C ST 4-10 FT2 LL39965 - - - - (UL) STO 4-10 E67474

Range outlets are 50 amps I think, so this cord in particular wouldn't work, but you might find a 50 amp one.

Paco said:

On the cost factor; according to my numbers, it cost me $0.51cad to boil with a 4500W element for 90 minutes. It would cost $0.84 with 7500W (3000W + 4500W). Make you wonder... We're known to pay too little for electricity here in Québec.

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Thats cuz Quebec got the sweetest deal in the world from Joey Smallwood, premier of Newfoundland at the time, when he basically gave away the power rights to Churchill Falls for until 2041.

woops...

The Pol said:

1 pound of propane creates about 25,000 BTU.

210,000 BTU cant be cheap to run.

I will stick with electric.

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That's why I only run my 210,000 BTU burner for about 15 minutes per brew.

I am still trying to decide which route to take to full electric, then the propane will just be an auxiliary heat source.

Big flames are cool. Water heating elements are for sissies.

Lil' Sparky said:

Big flames are cool. Water heating elements are for sissies.

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True true... but I love my sissy rig

i've found that my electric bill monthly hasn't raised higher than the cost of refilling propane tanks. a 4500 watt heating element and wire and a dryer plug costs a good bit less than a propane burner. and you won't risk carbon monoxide poisoning if you're doin it in ur garage. i don't know about heating elements for sissies... after all, you're mixing water with electricity to make alcohol. mabye it's just for those of us that are a lil off
i do like a good flame tho. kinda memorizing sometimes

It costs me forty cents to brew a 3 gallon batch of beer using electric, assuming a 60 minute boil.

If I had a better electrical supply where I brew I would prefer electric. Propane tanks, swapping them out, having them run out, all that heat in your face, meh. I like fire, but I have to hand it to electric for things like heating water.
Propane is portable, though.

Propane is portable, that is a big plus. As always, it depends on the need of the individual brewer.

I was called out in a thread last night about electric brewing. Called out on how much it costs to operate and how well it actually heats. Here is the run down on my system.

FWIW, my cost per kwh is:

$.126

I can run 5500W for THREE HOURS non stop for $2.09

My HLT costs $.28 per brew session to run (3 hours)
My BK costs $.90 for a 100 minute boil

Total brew session cost to run the HERMS: $1.18

It takes me about 10 minutes after the lauter, to reach a rolling boil.

IMHO it IS cheap to operate and it DOES heat fast. I have built both propane and electric. I personally prefer electric... but this is why:

Easy to automate
I brew in the garage a lot
I dont travel with my brew rig
It RUNS cheap
I like wires and projects
It is silent
It has flashing lights that look cool
I hate having to run out to get propane
Easy to dial in a boil rate by setting the PID % output to the same value (aside from atomospheric conditions)

GranillaNutz said:

and you won't risk carbon monoxide poisoning if you're doin it in ur garage.

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Doesn't dying while making beer take a close second to dying while having sex though?

I believe the conversion is

first convert gallons of water to cubic centimeters

1 cc of water = 1 gram of water

it takes one calorie to raise 1 gram of water 1 degree Celsius,

so Energy = (mass of water) x (change in temperature)

Convert energy in calories into joules by dividing by 4.18

then, one watt = a joule/sec

to determine watts, just divide total joules by the time to boil (I'd like to beable to bring water to temp in 15 minutes, or 900 seconds.

Alright, so I'm not particularly experienced with electrical systems, but everybody in this thread seems to be quite knowledgeable.

I'm living in a somewhat old apartment - 1970s, probably. Got 20A circuits here, no access to anything higher, and none of the outlets have GFCIs. I'm looking at using a 120V water heater element. My all-grain setup isn't exactly set in stone yet, but I have two 40qt aluminum stock pots, so I'll probably go with one as a MT, the other as a HLT and boil pot with the element attached.

So, four questions:
1. I'd like to use a GFCI, of course, so I'll have to go in-line. Is there any reason that this wouldn't work?:
Tower Mfg 30338024 GFCI Cord 5-15 Plug Inline to 3x5-15R 3 Feet 15a/125v 12/3 SJTW Auto Reset - Our Item #: 3147, Category: Outdoor/Marine Power : StayOnline.com

2. Should I be worried about staying farther below 20A since the apartment's older? I notice that the in-line GFCI above is 15A, which would put a cap on my wattage at 1800, if I'm getting that correct.

3. Could a 1800V (or around that range, anyways) element hold a boil of, say, 7 gallons? I don't really expect a single heating element at that voltage to REACH a boil in a reasonable amount of time, but I'm planning to supplement it with my stove, anyways.

4. Low or high watt density? I hear high can scorch (but I also hear that it doesn't), and also that high can be better for reaching a boil.

I can't use propane - nowhere outdoors to store it, plus it's against the lease for me to have it at my apartment anyways. And my stove's not nearly powerful enough to boil more than a couple gallons. So electric will have to work. I'll probably upgrade the element in the future if I have 240A available, but for now I just need something that can boil for a 5gal batch, even if it takes a while.

1. you can find 20A GFCI replacement outlets at Home Depot for $15.

2. If the breaker is 20A you can do 20A for intermittent duty. Just make sure nothing else is on the circuit.

3. Never seen an 1800W element. You'll more likely find 1500W or 2000W. 2000W will give a good boil on 5 gallons but not any more really. You'd definitely need the stove assist for 7 gal.

4. I run a 2000W high density in my kettle. Never seen a bit of scorching in 20+ batches.

jumpjet2k said:

3. Could a 1800V (or around that range, anyways) element hold a boil of, say, 7 gallons? I don't really expect a single heating element at that voltage to REACH a boil in a reasonable amount of time, but I'm planning to supplement it with my stove, anyways.

4. Low or high watt density? I hear high can scorch (but I also hear that it doesn't), and also that high can be better for reaching a boil.

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You will find 1500W, 1650W and 2000W elements

You will need, mathematically and in a practical sense about 3,800W to maintain a vigorous boil in 7 or more gallons of wort. I have proven this, as have others who use electricity in SS Sankey kegs... now the material used and thickness of it will affect this wattage to some degree, but not significanty. I run my 5500W element in my BK at 70%, the lowest I have seen someone go is 67% which is still 3,685W of power. Mind you, all of which would require 240VAC.

You can use HIGH watt density elements in the boil... I think the myth about scorching is the same as the myth about rapid cooling of wort, HSA and the like... just myths.

If you suppliment a 1650W element with your stove, you will probably be able to make it happen.

Thanks for the responses. I found a low watt density 1650W element which is pretty cheap, so I'll probably go with it:
Amazon.com: RELIANCE WATER HEATER CO #9000253 1650W 120V Scr Element: Home Improvement

Cheers!