Hoppy Brews/Bottling/Oxydization

After two years and about 40 all-grain batches I'm satisfied with my progress with one glaring exception. Hoppy beers.

My hoppy beers taste rough from almost all perspectives. The bittering is coarse. The aromas and flavors are muddy, grassy and harsh.

A recipe won't help because these characteristics seem to be there regardless of the recipe, so long as its higher IBU with ample finishing hops.

I've adjusted and readjusted my water/pH with salts. Used bottled spring and R.O. and various combinations thereof. Taken care of my chloramine. Shortened my dry-hopping to avoid grassiness/coarseness.

One thing I haven't addressed is oxydation, and I suspect that may be my problem. I'm a bottler. I use good bottling techniques. I've read that even with "good" bottling techniques its nearly impossible to avoid the oxydation of a hoppy beer, and that to get consistently good hoppy beers you really need to keg. I will, however, be brewing more hoppy beers before I invest in a kegging system, and I want better results.

I'm confident that my hoppy beers haven't been exposed to oxygen before bottling. I rarely open a fermentor and, when I do, it's with an abundance of caution. So, I need to control oxygenation at packaging. I'm considering getting a CO2 bottle and purging each bottle prior to bottling, and slow feeding CO2 to the bucket while bottling.

Other than "Start Kegging", any feedback or suggestions??

The first thing I thought of was "water" but you address that. I still wonder, though, if that is the issue. When you use RO water, you still had muddy flavors?

Yooper, here are the permutations I've used: i) RO with salts to build a modified Burton profile, ii) half RO and half Zephyrhills bottled spring water, iv) all Zephyrhills bottled spring water, v) half RO and half tap treated for chloramine with Campden, iii) all tap water treated for chloramine with Campden. The RO with salts did improve the hop character some. Note: I buy my "RO" from the big blue box dispenser, Glacier Water, and it doesn't test neutral.

I have been struggling with the exact same issue. I live in Arizona where I can't chill my wort below 80F even with an IC chiller and a pre-chiller. So I've been aerating/pitching around 80F then throwing it in my fermentation chamber. I feel my issue is getting oxygen in the wort at such a high temp. Could you be oxidizing your beer at some stage other than bottling? Are you transferring hot wort in a way that introduces oxygen? Just a thought. I would love help on this issue as well. I assume your non-hoppy beers don't suffer from the same off flavors. I don't mean to hijack your thread, but can someone explain how oxidation effects hoppy beers different than malty beers?

Pilgarlic said:

Yooper, here are the permutations I've used: i) RO with salts to build a modified Burton profile, ii) half RO and half Zephyrhills bottled spring water, iv) all Zephyrhills bottled spring water, v) half RO and half tap treated for chloramine with Campden, iii) all tap water treated for chloramine with Campden. The RO with salts did improve the hop character some. Note: I buy my "RO" from the big blue box dispenser, Glacier Water, and it doesn't test neutral.

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I have to agree with Yooper, it sounds like a water issue. I would try all RO with just a tsp of calcium chloride. Sounds like you actually don't want to shoot for a Burton profile... avoid sulfate.