Blue Moon clone questions...

Hello,

My wife and I have our first homebrew of Cooper's English Bitter/Briess CBW PME unhopped percolating in our primary. After 72 hours, the airlock is still "gloob, gloob, gloob, every 1.5 seconds or so. Checked it with the hydrometer today and so far, so good!

So now, we want to jump in to All Grain. Her favorite beer is Blue Moon and we're going to try this thanks to Wayne's generous contribution of the recipe to the board (https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f12/blue-moon-clone-65328/)

We're putting together our shopping list exactly per Wayne's instructs, and I see recipe calls for 50% American 2 row, 40% white wheat malt (no flaked or unmalted) and 10% rolled oaks (old fashioned rolled Quaker oats???).

As we have 5 gallon carboys, can you assist us with the grain ratios? I'm anticipating a few comments that I may not be ready for All Grain brewing yet, so let me preface that I used to sous chef for a living, I'm an avid baker, as well as hunter, fisherman, and gardener who cans our own food from jellies to non-acidic vegetables to homemade salsa & spag sauce...so I'm well versed in everything from food prep to using my scales to sterilizing glassware in the oven prior canning...

Do we start with 5 gallons of water (end result) + 1 gallon extra for anticipated evaporation during the boil/mash process?

If so, are these grain ratios correct?

6 gal x 50% = 3.0# American 2 row
6 gal x 40% = 2.4# white wheat malt
6 gal x 10% = 0.6# oats
(we'll add 0.5# of rice hulls so the oats don't stick together)

Finally, one stupid question from a newbie: is there a reason why all grains aren't done in a huge nylon sock like a mirepoix?

Thank you all in advance!

DY

I do not intend to be rude, but if you are asking about how much water to start with and you are using a multiplier of batch size to grain ratio to figure out how much grain you need then you probably haven't researched going AG enough. You mash with a ratio, typically 1.25-1.33 qts of water per pound of grain. The ratio are something to use based off of the entire grain bill. As an example, if the entire grain bill is 10 pounds then you would need 5 lb 2-row, 4 lb wheat malt, and 1 lb oats. Use instant oats or you will have to cook them to gelatanize them before putting them into the mash.

Anyway, go check out Palmer's book, How to Brew. It is available online for free, read it and learn the basics. If you still want to jump into all grain after that then no big deal because you will have the basic knowledge to start from. Just ignore the technical stuff like water profiles, worry about that later. Hope that helps...just take your time and don't do more than you know how to do or you will not have a good time and end up giving up the hobby, I would much rather you enjoy it and stick with it as it is a very rewarding past time (obsession). Welcome to the hobby.

You weren't rude at all; and thank you - it does help! I have read Palmer's book online. Maybe it's my cooking background, but I'm not used to starting with percentages of dry goods without knowing how much of the wet goods go with it. So that's my question: given a ratio of 50:40:10 of dry goods to obtain 5 gallon in the primary, how much wet goods do I start with? 6 gals of water? If so, I'll re-calculate...

Secondly, as the grains aren't consumed (as in the case of mirepoix seasonings in many soup stocks/dishes), is there a reason why I couldn't use a nylon stocking to steep/mash the grains in? To me, it would be certainly easier to elevate the bag, squeeze until dripping stopped, pour into the wort into the primary and go back to the kettle then dip the large bag of crushed grain in a few inches of water like a tea bag to get all the starchy residuals and add that into the wort in the primary as well. Tho it works in cooking, would this be a beer-making faux pas?

Thank you again,

DY

mine is bottled but not carbonated yet,,, this is the recipe I used after corresponding with wayne via PM.

BLUE MOON CLONE 10-1-10
5 LB 2 ROW
4 LB WHITE WHEAT MALT
1 LB FLAKED OATS
.5 LB RICE HULLS
Mashed with 1.25 qts per lb of grain at 154 degrees for 60 minutes.
Double sparged to 6.5 gallons .
60 minute boil
1 oz hallertau @ 60
.17 oz coriander @15
.5 oz Valencia orange peel at 5
Pitched s-05
OG 1.060

BTW this was a 5 gallon batch

damnyankee said:

You weren't rude at all; and thank you - it does help! I have read Palmer's book online. Maybe it's my cooking background, but I'm not used to starting with percentages of dry goods without knowing how much of the wet goods go with it. So that's my question: given a ratio of 50:40:10 of dry goods to obtain 5 gallon in the primary, how much wet goods do I start with? 6 gals of water? If so, I'll re-calculate...

Secondly, as the grains aren't consumed (as in the case of mirepoix seasonings in many soup stocks/dishes), is there a reason why I couldn't use a nylon stocking to steep/mash the grains in? To me, it would be certainly easier to elevate the bag, squeeze until dripping stopped, pour into the wort into the primary and go back to the kettle then dip the large bag of crushed grain in a few inches of water like a tea bag to get all the starchy residuals and add that into the wort in the primary as well. Tho it works in cooking, would this be a beer-making faux pas?

Thank you again,

DY

Click to expand...

Well, you're going to need a couple of HUGE bags to hold 10 pounds of grain and a HUGE container. You want the grain to be loose in the bags, so you can thoroughly stir. While so people do BIAB (Brew In A Bag), many of us have built mashtuns.

I don't think you're understanding the point the first poster made about the water ratio. You have to do the math to figure the "wet goods"- it's not like baking where it's a set amount.

Using 1.5 quarts of water per pound of grain is a good place to start. If you're using 10 pounds of grain, that means you'll mash in with 15 quarts of water, probably at about 168 degrees in the mash tun to arrive at a mash temp of 154. That needs to be stirred very well, and the temperature kept at 154 for one hour. It's hard to do without using a cooler, unless you have a direct heat source. That's hard, too, since it's easy for the temperature to rise too much with direct heat. Anyway, you drain those runnings and you'll get out about 2.75 gallons of liquid. Then you'll use the sparge water to get to your boil volume- typically 6.5 gallons or so.

What I would suggest doing since this is new to you is to do an extract or partial mash version of this recipe. It's not difficult to do all-grain brewing at all, but without the equipment or an understanding of the concepts in mashing, it would probably be very frustrating. It would easily be converted to a partial mash which would be easy, and could be done in a bag in a pot.

Awesome - a fellow Buckeye to the rescue! Thank you VERY, VERY much for posting your work!

After we get this batch bottled in a few weeks, I'm going to try make this for SWMBO. In the mean time: if yours gets carbonated, I know there's a number of us who'd like to know how yours turned out!

Take care,

DY

damnyankee said:

Awesome - a fellow Buckeye to the rescue! Thank you VERY, VERY much for posting your work!

After we get this batch bottled in a few weeks, I'm going to try make this for SWMBO. In the mean time: if yours gets carbonated, I know there's a number of us who'd like to know how yours turned out!

Take care,

DY

Click to expand...

No problem , however having the recipe and knowing the process are not the same thing. Read what YOOP posted and you will understand it a bit better. You are gonna need a mash tun with a braid or a manifold or a false bottom, and a pot big enough to boil the wort. You will also need to know the boil off rate so you know how much wort to start with. .. Trust me it is NOT hard at all , but you have to do some studying and research before you jump in, and believe this... when you get halfway into a batch and realize you DO NOT HAVE all of the equipment that you need.. it SUCKS!

Hi Yooper,

Thank you for sharing your expertise! You're correct about baking: it's usually a 1:1 ratio (for the most part). I now know for beer, a good guestimate is 1.5:1 (1.5 qts water to 1# grain).

Now I see how much grain and liquid I'm working with, I understand how using bags may not yield the best results. I do have a 8 gallon stainless stockpot and other similar size stainless stockpots, so I'm not worried about that. I have a few weeks to get a mash tun bought/made so I plan on giving this a whirl....I learn best by doing and by trial-and-error.

Thank you again for your guidance!

DY

If you have an 8 qt pot, you are good to go. A cooler mash tun is EASY to make especially using a stainless braid.

If you ring out a sock full of grains you can risk over extraction and end up with tannins so that can be a bad way to go about the process. Another thing to think about is how are you going to get the wort out of the pot? If you do not have a pump you need to gravity feed it. Easiest way to do that is have a valave installed at the bottom of the pot so you are not trying to siphon it.