Today is the big day!

My system is ready for the switch from 5G extract to 10G AG... I cleaned everything with PBW last night and rinsed... Gonna transfer a beer from my second carboy into a corny and then I should be good to go...

Want to run the mash process by you guys, and I have a couple questions...

I bought a 5G American IPA kit from B3 which was shipped on the third.. It's been in the fridge for a bit more than a week, and I don't want to wait any longer so that it stays reasonably fresh..

I bought a second American IPA 5G kit from them, which was shipped on the 15th..

So I have 2 kits.. each kit has 12lbs 2 row, and 1.5lbs crystal malt 15L

So that's 27 lbs of grain... I want to mash at 154-156 (158 max) degrees, so that I stay on the maltier end of things...

So here's the plan as I understand it...

*) I just removed both kits from the fridge, and set them on the coffee table a bout ten feet in front of the fireplace to warm up to room temp in preparation for the mash a few hours from now... (7-8 hours)

*) I heat up about 10 gallons of water to 180 or better, and dump into the mash tun (48qt coleman cooler) to preheat it while the strike water is heating..

*) I heat seven and a half gallons of water to 170-172 degrees..

*) I dump the preheat water from the tun, and then dump the strike water into the tun from the kettle...

*) I check the temp to make sure it's 170-172 degrees, and then add the 27 lbs of grain and stir

*) I check the temperature, and add hot or cold water if needed to get it to the 156 degree temp I'm targeting.. stir thoroughly

*) Cover and wait 60 mins

??) should I leave alone, or stir during this process

*) while waiting for the mash, during the last 15 mins or so, I heat another 3 gallons for the sparge (I'll be adding ore before I actually sparge)

*) After 60 mins, I collect the first running into a plastic bucket and cover... recirculating the first half gallon into a pitcher until it runs clear..

*) I deduct what I collected from the first running from eleven gallons, and then add enough water to the 3 gallons already heating to equal that amount... I bring the sparge water to about 168-170 degrees, and then dump it into the mash tun and stir...

*) I wait 15 mins and then collect the second runnings into a second bucket (recirculating with the pitcher first)... and cover..

??) should I leave alone during the 15 mins or stir occasionally?

*) I should now have 11 gallons of wort...

*) I add the wort in the two buckets to the BK and check the OG and figure efficiency..

*) I add 2 more gallons of water for boil off, and begin my boil...

If I follow these steps will I be successful?
Is there anything I missed?
Suggestions?

*) I heat up about 10 gallons of water to 180 or better, and dump into the mash tun (48qt coleman cooler) to preheat it while the strike water is heating..


just add hot tap water to the cooler for preheat. it doesn't have to be 180*. close the lid and let the cooler absorb the heat while you are heating your strike water

stir really well at dough in getting all doughballs broken up so all the grain is nice and evenly heated then close the lid. 5 minutes after this point open the lid and take the grainbed temp. if you hit your target, close the lid and leave it at least 60 minutes.

If you are going to add more water to the mash before your first sparge.. add it, stir real good, then settle the bed for a couple minutes, then vorlauf until clear, (slow flow rate at first), then collect the first runnings in your bucket full speed ahead. dump your second batch sparge into the cooler, stir real well, settle the same as the first time, vorlauf, then drain. there is no need to let the sparge sit for 15 minutes in between. just until the bed settles down (couple minutes)
Good Luck.. have fun

No need to fill the MT twice to preheat. Simply add the strike water 10-15 above strike temp. Let sit for 15 minutes, then either stir to cool to strike temp, add a couple of ice cubes and stir or just a little cool water to reduce to strike temp.

wilserbrewer said:

No need to fill the MT twice to preheat. Simply add the strike water 10-15 above strike temp. Let sit for 15 minutes, then either stir to cool to strike temp, add a couple of ice cubes and stir or just a little cool water to reduce to strike temp.

Click to expand...

The sticky up top says to preheat it... You sure this isn't necessary? The tun has been sitting outside overnight in sub freezing temps.... and the ambient temp will likely be in the thirties when I start the process around mid day...

After this, I want to try out that Bee Cave IPA recipe!
Fun stuff!

Yes you want to preheat it but what I believe he is saying is add your strike water at a higher temp and allow it to come down to your strike temp.

At that point add your grains.

Either way works, do whatever feels good to you.

-bn

BeernuT100 said:

Yes you want to preheat it but what I believe he is saying is add your strike water at a higher temp and allow it to come down to your strike temp.

At that point add your grains.

Either way works, do whatever feels good to you.

-bn

Click to expand...

I just don't want to screw it up.... that would suck!

I'm not sure what mash ratio your using. 1.25qt/lb gives you 8.5 gallons for mash but 7.5 is fine for a little thicker mash and will let you add hot/cold water if necessary. As for mashing if you have brewing software it should help you with calculating yoru strike temp(temp of the grains vs the temp/volume of the water).

To keep things simple just heat up your strike water to about 180 then add it to the cooler. Throw the lid on and let it heat up and even out. Once it reaches your desired strike temp dump in the grains and stir them up nice and good. Cover and let it sit to stabilize the temp then take a reading and adjust if necessary. You can mash out if you want but it's not necessary and adds another step.

After your hour you can vorlauf as much as you need and then drain it into the kettle when it's running clear. At this point I usually measure what my runnings are and add what's necessary to make up the volume I need with boil off. So lets say you pull out 6.5 or 7 gallons out of the 7.5 you'll probably need >12 gallons total for your boil depending on your boil off rate. So you'll need another 6 gallons for sparging at 170. Let it sit for 10 minutes and repeat the vorlauf/draining. While you're on the sparge you should get the first runnings heated up and ready for the boil.

Considering you're doing your first AG batch and you're doing a 10 gallon one at that, good luck. If it were me I'd do it one kit at a time just incase I mucked up.

What exactly does "mash out" mean anyways? I see this term in a lot of recipes, but I'm vague on it's meaning and purpose...

r8rphan said:

What exactly does "mash out" mean anyways? I see this term in a lot of recipes, but I'm vague on it's meaning and purpose...

Click to expand...

http://www.howtobrew.com/section3/chapter17.html

Thanks..

So then, if I didn't need to add any water to adjust the temperature of the mash at the beginning, I can add some hot water if I want, to raise the temperature and also dilute the mash a little for improved flow purposes? I might do that...

Or I might just add some water of the desired mash temp in the beginning..

Or should I leave well enough alone, and trust that I won't have any issues with flow from the original 1.1 qts per pound?

As long as you open the drain slowly you should be fine. If there is wheat in the kit you have a slightly higher chance of it getting stuck but you should be fine.

... seven and a half gallons of strike water heating...
... 110 degree preheat water in tun...

Another approach to preheating your mash tun:

0. Know your mash tun dead space. Mine is about 2 cups.

1. Boil your mash out water + dead space amount. Toss it in your mash tun.
2. Heat your strike water to a couple degrees above strike temp. (or if you're ballsy, follow your calculator and hit it spot on. I usually don't try it.)
3. Once you're near strike temperature, drain your mash out through your manifold into another pot.
4. Add strike water. Stir or add ice cubes to reach actual strike temperature.
5. Dough in.

This process usually gets me right on in terms of mash temperature.

Measured 10 mins after mash was stirred in, is 149 degrees..

That's a little cooler than I wanted, and at the bottom end of the range.. I'd like to heat it up some, so I have a gallon of water heating on the stove... Do I bring it to boil or what temp.. and how much should I add?....

Ideally, I'd like to hit 156 degrees...

Beersmith says you're going to need about 5 quarts of boiling water to bring that up. or 6 quarts at 197. or 7 quarts at 191.

Oh man, I can't wait to brew on Thursday. As long as the rain holds off.

Can I do it in two pours? I don't want to carry a pot of boiling water that's that full.. (near the brim)

At 22 mins, the digital thermometer reads 151-152 degrees.. So I'm not gonna add 'too much' boiling water on the first try.. Maybe 3 qts...

Then stir, wait, and measure again...

After pouring 3 qts.. It measured 155 degrees immediately after stirring the mash.. I'll let it sit for about 10 mins and check again.. I bet it goes up a couple more degrees.

r8rphan said:

Thanks..

So then, if I didn't need to add any water to adjust the temperature of the mash at the beginning, I can add some hot water if I want, to raise the temperature and also dilute the mash a little for improved flow purposes? I might do that...

Or I might just add some water of the desired mash temp in the beginning..

Or should I leave well enough alone, and trust that I won't have any issues with flow from the original 1.1 qts per pound?

Click to expand...

Ok so you are doing a AG IPA. I would recomend doing a British style Infusion mash.

Strike- 1.3qt/lb water @ 170 maybe fill your tun with 175f and wait to dough in till around 170, but not below. Stir in well!

Low Mash- Allow to stand for 2hr 35min. Cover and maintain temp. Do not open lid if you do not have too! Wrap with blankets or towels if it is really cold there.

Underlet- Transfer, filter first 1-2qts back through grain bed. allow to stand 30min before sparging.

Sparge- rinse with hot water @ 180f, down to 1.002-3 gravity.

Mmmmmm... Smells 'incredible!'

r8rphan said:

Mmmmmm... Smells 'incredible!'

Click to expand...

Sorry didn't realize you had already started. I think you will be fine, when I did my first couple AG's I made mistakes... you learn from this. Just take good notes and you will be fine!! Happy Brewing!

How deep into the mash should I be measuring the temp?

Measure in three spots to get the average, around the sides, the middle, and anywhere else.

Man that hour went fast!

Temp stayed at about 150-151 through the mash.. A bit lower than I wanted, but within range... 152 was recommended in kit instructions... I wanted a bit warmer to add maltiness and mouthfeel/body.. But it is what it is...

Extracted 4.5 G wort, heating up 6.5G more for sparge...

Don't get too stressed out about your temps not being where you want them. The more times you brew with your setup, the better you'll get to know it. You won't have to ask how many degrees hotter your strike water needs to be to hit your mash temp, you'll just learn what your system requires and do it. Don't forget the most important thing and RDWHAHB! Cheers!

r8rphan said:

Extracted 4.5 G wort, heating up 6.5G more for sparge...

Click to expand...

Heat the sparge water during the mash rest next time. Your original post says that you will add water to acccount for boiloff...while this will work...better IMO to sparge an additional amount to account for boiloff...sparge more rather than water down the runnings for better efficiency

Can some one please tell me what the corrected gravity is for 1.041 at 122 degrees?
Thanks

wilserbrewer said:

Heat the sparge water during the mash rest next time. Your original post says that you will add water to acccount for boiloff...while this will work...better IMO to sparge an additional amount to account for boiloff...sparge more rather than water down the runnings for better efficiency

Click to expand...

Really? That video I watched from the brew network suggested doing it the way I am, as that will reduce the likelyhood of tannins...

Anyways, I would not have been able to fit the sparge water in my tun... It didn't fit as it was, and I had to get creative..

I just called B3 and they said their kits are based on exactly 5 gallons, so I will only be adding another gallon pre boil, and this of course skewed my OG reading for efficiency..

If someone can help me with the numbers, I read 1.041 with a sample at 122 degrees, with 10% more wort than there's supposed to be... (11G instead of 10)..

I'm hungry and the math is giving me indigestion... target is 60-64.. Mine is pretty low, but temp and volume are skewing it... Trying to figure out if I should add water at all...

On to the boil

Cooled the sample under the faucet (DOH!)..

At 74 degrees, it's reading about 52

52x11= 572
Target is 60-64 x10 = 600-640

572/60 = approx 9.5

there's 11G in there now.. If I boil off 2G, I can hit target OG..

So if I add 1/2 gallon and do the boil, I should hit target gravity

Does all this sound right?

Sheesh! I need a beer!

your gravity of 1.041 @ 122f is 1.053

Relax i know if you have a good rolling boil you will burn off at least a gallon of wort.

Things got pretty rough at the end of the boil...

This thermometer I got.. I dunno..

Anyways.. I over chilled the wort.. Thermometer was reading from 68 to 76 so I stopped the chill and dropped the floating thermo in there..

It said, 60 degrees.. so I dumped the wort into the first carboy.. All is well, except that it's reading 52 degrees on the fermometer..

So I fill that one to abut 4.5 gallons, and then move the tube to the next carboy.. stopping to fill the hydrometer sample tube first... But now the wort is flowing 'very' slow.. When about two gallons are in the carboy, it stops.. I have no idea what the problem is, but by now it's broken siphon...

So I gotta reach in there and remove the dip tube somehow.. So I sanitize my hands, the pliers, and so on, and in I go.. I tilt things away as best I can, but it's tough getting in behind the IC without touching the wort.. But I do what I gotta do..

I get the dip tube disconnected, and now can pick up the BK and tilt it so the wort flows out of the fitting, and I get the last 2-3 gallons out..

Man, there is a lot of trub in both carboys... One is reading 58 degrees, the other 68... I set them on the kitchen counter, covered the openings with foil.. and am thinking I should wait a few hours (maybe in the morning) to let the temps stabilize and aerate and pitch the yeast..

I dunno, we'll see how this all turns out.. I'm tired..

A 56 degree sample of wort is reading 1.061.. My first AG turned out to be the toughest brew session yet.. Not because of the mash, but the boil...

Long two days... The kitchen, utility porch, and laundry room are total disasters... ... I'll clean up the mess tomorrow

I'm done... Dinner, shower.. bed... later...

PS.. Thanks much to all who offered help and advice... It can only get better from here (I hope)...

:rockin:

Took this picture just after bringing them in the house.. Trub has compacted some in the last 1/2 hour.. but still a 'lot'..

Looks pretty good but I'd say you need more water to account for boil off. Do you have a big funnel yet? You could have aerated it then by using a bucket to dump it into the funnell/carboy and then back into the bucket.

Also, do you use whirlfloc or irish moss? That should help keep the trub down if you whirlpool towards the end of your chill and siphon from the sides.

One big problem I have, that I didn't realize until it was upon me, is that when I, shut off the flow of wort to take a sample and move to the second carboy, the wort level is down near the level of the welded fitting for the dip tube.. Thus, when I turn it back on, I have lost almost all pressure differential, and siphon activity..

How do you guys deal with this?

Do you use a split tube and siphon both at one, or just pull it out of the first carboy, and make a mess on the way to the second? Stopping the flow is what caused me all the problems..

arch1tect said:

Looks pretty good but I'd say you need more water to account for boil off. Do you have a big funnel yet? You could have aerated it then by using a bucket to dump it into the funnell/carboy and then back into the bucket.

Also, do you use whirlfloc or irish moss? That should help keep the trub down if you whirlpool towards the end of your chill and siphon from the sides.

Click to expand...

I need to deal with the siphon problem, and from there get a false bottom... I also want to get that IC out of there.. It's a royal PITA.. Gonna build that custom CFC post haste...

I use whirlfloc tabs (used two of them)

As to the boil off.. I had low efficiency (or something), so adding more boil off water would have made problems worse..

So I learned some areas that I need to work on in the drawing of wort from the BK, and I also learned that he 'math' I used (from "Designing Great Beers") works great.. By taking a sample, and determining my gravity and adding only a half gallon of boil off water, I was able to hit the target gravity spot on..

Had I added all that boil off in the mashing process, I would have had to 'boil more off' or deal with a low OG... both not great options.. It would also have required a second sparge, which from what I understand, can lead to tannin extraction..

But I'm all ears.. Maybe splitting the sparge in two would have gotten me more gravity after boil off...I might try that next time.. after I deal with the siphon problem... (and the thermometer problem)

Also, doing this all in one day for your first brew was probably not a good idea..

Next time, and I suggest this to other first timer AG brewers.. I'm gonna mash the night before brew day.. That would have made life way easier for me...

Anyways, both beers appear to be at pitching temp, so after I get some coffee in me, I guess I'll rehydrate the yeasts and pitch them, put the carboys in the bathroom, install blowoffs, and start cleaning up the mess...

Ones getting SafAle 04, the other SafAle 05