Need advice on wheat beers...

OK so SWMBO is wanting me to brew a beer for the girls to drink and I thought a wheat of some description with some orange, lemon and kiwi zest and a bit of manuka honey could be just the sort of thing to do the trick. Only problem is that here in New Zealand there are not many wheat beers that I have been able to try. So far we've had:

Schneider Weisse Hefeweizen - Way too much of a hefeweizen I'm guessing, she couldn't drink it. Too much of a yeast character I think was the problem.

The local brew pubs wheat beer - Pretty sure it was a pale lager, no character and if I'm making a beer Id rather it was a bit funny tasting then boring.

Macs Great White - Says its a wit and from what I've read I think that's probably true, we both really enjoyed that one as it was sort of in between the two, had a subtle character but not too strong.

Im just after some advice as to what style I should probably go for, Im thinking of doing a wit using S-04, the only yeast I can get is dry and Ive not heard good things about dry wheat yeasts, could this help subdue some of the yeasty flavours though?

Im looking to make a good refreshing wheat beer of some description but I am worried that American wheat beers might be a bit like the local brew pubs? Never had the chance to try any over here unfortunately.

I know its a long post so feel free to answer any question you like and leave it at that

what kind of extract are you using liquid? dry?

Id say that you shouldn't use all wheat. Most people recomend a 60/40. however i think you could get a way with a 50/50. If you did a batch of say 3.3 lbs of liquid wheat and 3.3 lbs of liquid extra light extract youd be at the 50/50, but you may have better results with 3.3 lbs of liquid and say 3 lbs of dry extra light DME. (i'm saying 3.3 lbs because thats what most of the comercial syrups come in and thats what i used for my first several beers).

wheat does not give much, if any flavor. it provides a crisp clean beer. however you can add some othe ingrediants to get the flavors your looking for. Coriander will provide some lemony flavors but dont over due it, you can also get sweet or bitter orange peel. I have not used any oth the 3 so cant tell you how much to use.

I think you would be fine on using a clean, cry yeast like the 04, it should let the flavors come through more and help you keep that crisp flavor that othe yeasts migh tdetract from.

Good luck. Remember - RDWHAHB

Why not make the American style wheat and add some of your choice of lemon,kiwi or orange after fermentation. Use Safale US-05 and it will be nuetral enough to not get in the way of the fruit additions.

you should also research some hop varieties to get the notes your looking for. I recently did a 2 hearted ale clone and it just got done fermenting. I tasted it when i tansfered it to the secondary and i picked up a lot of grapefruit flavors in it. I'm sure they were form the hops as i used a clean liquid yeast (CAL ALE from white labs). If your interested in taht i can tell you the hops in the recipe tomorrow when i have my journal in front of me.

as a beginner i would recomend beign very careful with fruit after the boil. you typicaly need a lot to get the flavors you want and it has the possibilty of contamination. i would avoid fruit extracts if possible.

I tried a wildberry wheat about 6 months ago and it has been the only batch of beer i've ever had to dump. I put 3 pounds of frozen fruit into the primary and the falvor was only very mild - just a hint of berry. I added 2 ounces o fruit extract and it made the beer tast aweful.

Sorry,meant to put it in before but forgot, this will be either my first or second AG, been wanting to do a wheat for a while but its expensive to buy wheat extract either dry or liquid here. Id like to stay away from making it too fruity and not using the fruit in a secondary. I may decide to add a bit though if it seems the best idea once I get my recipe down. Also, kegtoe if you have your notes on hand whenever I would appreciate a hop recommendation, I'm thinking American hops would probably be the way to go, Amarillo is a personal favourite.

Thanks for all the quick replies, I didnt think there would be any yet and I was just going to add that this was going to be an AG batch

So my first draft of something resembling a recipe...

40% Belgian 2row
30% Belgian Wheat Malt
20% Flaked Wheat
5% Flaked Oates
5% Manuka Honey (after boil)

S-05 / S-04 Ale Yeast
or WB-06 Wheat Yeast

Hops, fruit rind and coriander will be figured out once I get the grain bill down.

So... any suggestions?

A citrusy wheat beer sounds much like a Blue Moon Clone that I've done a few times. My advice is to use a standard ale yeast like S-05. My last batch I used a belgian wit yeast and it had a bit of funkiness, not clean like my previous ale yeasts (but not untasty IMO).

I went 50% 2-row, 50% Wheat malt (I've used all flaked wheat before and the last batch some white wheat and some flaked). I've never used honey.

I'd personally skip the fruit, but I just don't care for it in my beer. For the Blue Moon/wit style I used 3/4-1 ounce fresh orange zest (Not the white stuff underneath), and about 3/4 ounce of crushed coriander. That is enough fruit flavor for me. But there are threads with advice on how to implement fruit in your beer.

Essentially I think the recipe you have is sound, but I have not experience in using honey, so I'm not sure how that will affect the fermentation. My wits normally ferment at about 68F for three weeks, which is just about my minumum and then straight to the keg/bottle.

I'd echo a lot of what has been said.
The question you have to ask is do you want a TRUE Belgian Wit or an American Wheat. A True Wit has a lot of yeast flavours from the Belgian wheat used, an American is similar in grain bill but much cleaner from the neutral yeast used.

The recipes You and Homer proposed are American Wheat in nature because of the neutral yeast and close to aBlue Moon Clone recipe floating around here. Adding Peel of 1 orange and 3/4-1 oz of Coriander with 15 minutes left in boil gives it a nice balance.

Something to consider with Honey is that its around 95% fermentable meaning it adds very little flavour and bumps up your ABV, the one time I added it I added 2 lbs and it was not noticeable, to get a honey flavour Honey Malt is usually preferred. I believe Honey Malt has no actual Honey but is named because of the honey flavour it leaves.

I recently made this recipe.
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f70/summer-citrus-wheat-67952/

It came out really good. I did 10 gallons, and used WLP-001 in one carboy, and Notty in the other. Both came out very nice. There was very little difference in the two yeasts. Just a slight hint of orange, not overpowering at all. In fact, most people I've given it to couldn't even detect it.

I used the rice hulls, and would recommend it only because I didn't get a stuck sparge.

Don't use the WB-06, it's crazy clovey/phenolic! I'd go with the US-05 or nottingham at a higher temp (72F?) they tend to produce some fruity esters when fermented hotter than normal.

Thanks guys, too much good advice in there to acknowledge each point Im thinking of getting another fermenter or using two of my three Iv'e got now and splitting 10 gallons between the two and using WB-06 in one and probably S-05 in the other :rockin: Maybe Ill do one lot of each then mix the final third of each together to get a cross. Three beers in one! :fro:

Don't use Kiwi. I've made a kiwi beer and it isn't as good as you'd imagine. In fact, don't make any fruit beer until you feel really comfortable making beer in general.

I've made a Wildflower Wheat (from Extreme Brewing). It uses honey and chamomile and is amazing if you like those two components. I used whole chamomile flowers. I also added the honey at flameout (book has it added in boil). It ended up with a nice honey flavor and a fairly strong chamomile aroma and flavor. I really think it would be a lady pleaser. I'll try to get the recipe up on the board soon (need to get a pic first).

thanks for the advice, yeah I'm not overly into fruit in beers either, seems a bit wrong to me personally. I was more thinking kiwi because its going to be a New Zealand summer beer and I like to go with a theme sometimes, hence the manuka honey. I'll take your advice though because I certainly don't want to end up with 10 gallons of beer with an ingredient I just wished I hadn't added, the different yeasts is an experiment, a bad fruit flavour I wish I hadn't added is a disaster.

Pommy said:

Sorry,meant to put it in before but forgot, this will be either my first or second AG, been wanting to do a wheat for a while but its expensive to buy wheat extract either dry or liquid here. Id like to stay away from making it too fruity and not using the fruit in a secondary. I may decide to add a bit though if it seems the best idea once I get my recipe down. Also, kegtoe if you have your notes on hand whenever I would appreciate a hop recommendation, I'm thinking American hops would probably be the way to go, Amarillo is a personal favourite.

Thanks for all the quick replies, I didnt think there would be any yet and I was just going to add that this was going to be an AG batch

Click to expand...

the 2-hearted clone form northern brewer had 5 ounces of Centenial hops.
1 ounce at start of boil
1 ounce with 20 minutes left
2 ounces at flame out
and 1 ounce in the secondary.

Agian, i picked up a lot of grapfruit/citruis notes - a lot different than the typical cascade that i use in 75% of my beers.

Woah that's a lot more hops then I expected! I was just thinking of using them for bittering but a grapefruit citrus character sounds great and since I think I will cut the normal wit ingredients of coriander and orange peel right back, or remove them completely, using hops will be the best way to go. Thanks for that kegtoe I will base my hop additions off your advice.

Cheers

I say try some more wheats on the girl.

My wife can't drink wheat. Says it has too much twang.

brew a real wheat yeast and add peaches or raspberry.... american wheats are thin and tasteless, even with fruit. educate your OTHER. Bannana and clover are good in a wheat!

Wyeast 3068 is the best! adding fruit masks the flavor but it is still there! good stuff!

I've tried and I still don't like American wheats tha t don't use true german yeasts

hmmm... I think I might go with the split batch idea, whatever she doesn't like I can always drink anyway. A bit of lemonade and a slice of lemon/orange and she will struggle her way through it anyway. SWMBO hates coriander in anything so I'll only use a very small amount of that.

Pommy,

I don't think Blue Moon has made it down under yet, but a variation on this should work for your SWMBO. It is kind of a mellowed out version of a Belgium Wit. It uses a very neutral yeast and lets the spices come through to dominate the flavor. Sweet orange peel and corriander do work well together.

Please peruse this thread: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f12/blue-moon-clone-65328/

This is why I love this forum Thanks everyone for all your advice.

Cheers

let us know how the beer turns out.