harsh bitter taste when racking to secondary

All,
Im new at brewing. I just made an IPA using LME and decided to add some specialty grains for flavoring. I chose 1 lb choc malt and 1lb 6-row crystal malt. Thing is-- I boiled them awhile. I didn't realize this was the not what was meant by "steeping". I figured it was like making tea. Anyway when I racked to the secondary today I tasted some and it had an odd bitterness that wasn't very appealing. My question is this: Will this taste smooth with time or is the whole batch screwed?
Thanks for any help.

Just wanted to add that I don't think the taste is due to bacteria because I took great pains to ensure everything the beer touched soaked in bleach water for at least 30 minutes and was rinsed thoroughly. There is no odd aromas -- just the harsh taste -- like superhoppy and sightly burnt -- not smooth. I made a kolsch at the same time and it tastes smooth and delicious - the only difference is with the IPA I boiled the grains. Hope I didn't ruin this beer! Any help is appreciated.

You've already discovered what you did wrong...you boiled the grains.

Dude, I'm not the best one to be answering this, but I'd say yeah, boiling the specialty grains probably caused your bitter taste. I guess you have the hope that it may mellow out in the secondary. Or after a while in the bottle. Hopefully, someone will have a more educated answer.

yeah Im hoping it will mellow out with time.

milholen said:

All,
Im new at brewing. I just made an IPA using LME and decided to add some specialty grains for flavoring. I chose 1 lb choc malt and 1lb 6-row crystal malt. Thing is-- I boiled them awhile. I didn't realize this was the not what was meant by "steeping". I figured it was like making tea. Anyway when I racked to the secondary today I tasted some and it had an odd bitterness that wasn't very appealing. My question is this: Will this taste smooth with time or is the whole batch screwed?
Thanks for any help.

Click to expand...

Yep, Boiling the grains released the bitter taste. FWIW, tea shouldn't be boiled. To steep tea, put the bag in a cup and pour the boiling water over it. let it steep (soak) until it's as strong as you like it.

boiling the 6-row probably extratced tanins from the grains. what happens to all-grain brewers when the sparge w/ water above 175 or sparge too long.


live and learn! good luck and maybe it'll mellow with a long conditioning....

a pound of chocolate in an IPA!? That might be contributing to the "burnt" taste you mention in your second post. Stout recipes don't even use that much roasted grain in general.

-walker

Tannins, they will mellow a bit with time. With a pound of chocolate and a pound of crystal, you've got something closer to a porter or stout. I only use 1/2 pound of chocolate in my Browns.

Should be an interesting "Quarts of Chaos" entry. A stout with an IPA hopping.

Give the guy a break Sheesh.. I think you can put some finnings in to help settle out some of the tannings,I know wine makers have something they use.Ageing will also help give your LHBS a call..

Try this site *********** I just did a quick google and a bunch poped up.

Could someone tell me the difference between "steeping" and "boiling"?

Thanks
J

Steeping occurs at a temperature below the boiling point. For steeping grains for beer it is usually ~155F or so. It is possible under certain conditions for tannins to be extracted from the grains if the temperature gets above 170-175F or so.

in very simple terms; steeping == soaking in hot (but not boiling) water

-walker

from "New Brewing Lager Beer" by Gregory J. Noonan......during steeping, or soaking, many enzymes in the grains are either formed or activated, and the starchy endosperm mass is solubilized to gummy polysaccharides. usually between 149 - 158 degrees. once steeped, the grains are then sparged or "rinsed" w/ water around 170 degrees to rinse any sugars of the grains. over sparging or spraging with water above 175 degrees will result in excess tanin flavors.

I guess the real question then is how do you, or can you, eliminate tannins?

Add some gelatin or other postively charged finings and the tannis will drop out. Might take a bit in the bottle to mellow too. I did this once and the finings worked for me.

Woah there fellas, you're jumping the gun a bit.

First question is how much water did you use to boil/steep the grain in?

If you used a ratio of 1.5 qts of water per pound of grain or less, chances are that you did not extract tannins by boiling the grains. Decotation mashing boils the grains successfully without extracting tannins by ensuring that the PH is below 5.2. If the water was within the volume for mashing, then the dark malts will have acidefied the wort and made boiling possible without tannin extraction.

I must admit though that too much chocolate was used for an IPA and probably even for a stout. I just brewed a stout and only used 6 oz of chocolate in it. With all the hops in an IPA and that much chocolate, he may have something that tastes like liquid baking chocolate.

Some finings just clear hazy and are not specific to tannin problems. "Polyclar works by latching on to tannins in the protein-tannin reaction. ... Polyclar is a favorite among both professionals and homebrewers who use it."

I use 5.2 pH buffer in mash, sparge & steeping water. It eliminates tannin extraction.

That's fine Dave, but I think Scott has something there. He did use 1# of chocolate malt.

He might just have an EX-LAX brew going on.

If this happened to me I would just brew a light ale of some sort (maybe a Weizen) and mix them to see what I could come up with. I know it would dilute the chocolate for sure.

I'd also use polyclar for this batch and let it sit until the other batch was ready.

We're not arguing/debating here. We're trying to help this guy.

Thanks for the help...I had no idea 1 lb was too much chocolate until today at work when I discussed it with a buddy that is an experienced brewer. Now reading this confirms it. It's funny though. Well I will go with the fining idea and hope for the best with some time maybe it'll mellow.
Who knows -- it could be a new style: Exlax IPA.
Ifs its still not close to drinkable at bottling time I may just toss it though. If I dilute it with a light ale there's no garauntee that'll taste any better. Not sure what to do with it if it still sucks.

At least I have my Kolsch to look forward to -- I actually followed a recipe with it.

oh yeah .. I used probably about 1.5 gals to boil the grains.

Don't toss it...Gambrinus, forgive me here...mix it with a Bud or something and try to come up with a drinkable mixture. As an example mix 1 part your brew to 2 parts Bud and sample it.

There's no need to brew another batch if you just use commercial brew to cut yours with. (If you drink that stuff...?)

I used that 1 lb of choclate and 3 lbs crystal malt in my barley wine. It's an almost black amber color. Tates great.


But that is way to much for an IPA.

Let it age for at least a month then see what you've got.

And posititely charged finings do attract neg charged tannins.

What was the Complete receipe used?

the beer actually came out phenomenal! its gone -- friends dranks it up. It was very nutty and dry -- delicious. Amazing what a little time will do for a troubled brew!