kegging vs. bottling

I have butting heads with myself over whether to bottle or keg. to me kegging seems like much less of a hassle. also the main reason for wanting to keg is i want nitrogen carbonation. It's just so much smoother than CO2 is and I think it would quite interesting on a red ale. but whats the cost difference assuming that i have no keg or bottles or anything for either of the ways. how much will it cost for both of them and what are some of the pros and cons for each.

Well bottles are free but despite their freeness, require a fair amount of work to collect, clean, sanitize, fill and cap. Kegging requires some equipment and despite its expense seems to make it easier to transfer for drinking. I don't keg right now but I also understand you'll probably need some special equipment for nitrogen. I think most standard kegging setups run near $200 on the web.

I'm one of the odd balls that prefers bottles over kegging. Scrubbing the labels off initially is a major PIA, but once you learn which type come off easily it's not too big of a deal. Just a few hours of work once a year.

Another key is to not label your bottles, but instead get those little round labels and label the bottle caps. Finally, when you're done drinking one of them, clean it then. A good rinsing is all it needs.

I found that the time to throw the bottles in the dishwasher the night before bottling day and sanitizing with the bottle tree is about the same as the time spent fiddling with cleaning all of the keg parts and messing with CO2 levels and shaking the keg around.

And bottles have the added advantage, or disadvantage, of being easy to give away. As a personal preference I like the bottle conditioned beer better.

Have you thought about using bigger bottles? Not going to help you with the nitrogen thing, but does reduce some hassle-factor.

I collected quite a few champagne bottles in my previous homebrewing experience (10 years ago) which have been handy now that I've restarted. My friends and I have also added a good number of 750ml Dogfish Head bottles to the collection, and I'm currently focusing my commercial beer buying on 22oz bottles, which has been very fun.

Homebrew in a champagne bottle feels really special.

Kegging for us is totally impractical, since there's three of us brewing. Hard to share. Even if I do end up kegging someday (and if/when I start brewing on my own at home, I will), I'm sure I'll bottle certain brews for long-term storage.

As best I can tell from just wild ass guessing and ballpark figures, if you factor in a homemade kegerator and used cornies, you can be kegging for $350, plus $10 a month on your electric bill.

Anybody care to comment on that?

I bottle, but will probably move over to kegs eventually. Since I don't particularly like to cap, this last batch, I filled a case of glass bottles, then filled 12 PET bottles with screw on caps, and 3 growlers like this one. I was going to buy the growlers, but at $25 each, I decided to go to a brew pub and buy them filled for $17. But the brew pub changed their style of growler to a screw cap that I don't particularly like.

Growlers are great, but keep in mind that when you break into one, you have 2 liters of beer to drink. And it will go flat, but it seems like if it's filled from tap, it goes flat faster than if it's naturally carbonated in the growler. I guess it loses some of the carbonation when being filled.

Both have advantages and disadvantages.

I'd have to disagree that it takes the same amount of time to remove the lables, clean, sanitize, fill and cap 52 bottles vs cleaning, sanitizing and filling 1 corny.
Corny kegs are a whole lot faster and easier.

Also I'd have to disagree that you need a kegerator. While they are nice to have you certainly don't need one.

Bottles are cheaper, more portable and make great gifts.
A good capper will make bottling alot easier and faster.

As far as the nitrogen you'll need a special regulator and the gas is twice as expensive as straight CO2.

Another thing I like about cornies is they make great secondary fermentors and are about the same price as a 5 gal. glass carboy

abracadabra said:

Also I'd have to disagree that you need a kegerator. While they are nice to have you certainly don't need one.

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If you don't have a kegerator you still need a separate fridge for any cornies you are serving. A corny is not going to fit in the kitchen fridge, so you still have considerable cost there unless you already have the fridge.
Craig

If you're going to start kegging, check out my first kegging experience and learn from my tradegy...

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=22791

Focus

BassBurner said:

I found that the time to throw the bottles in the dishwasher the night before bottling day and sanitizing with the bottle tree is about the same as the time spent fiddling with cleaning all of the keg parts and messing with CO2 levels and shaking the keg around.

And bottles have the added advantage, or disadvantage, of being easy to give away. As a personal preference I like the bottle conditioned beer better.

Click to expand...

OK, I'm just asking questions to get a better understanding not to be difficult. I havn't kegged so I don't have experience.
I give you that cleaning and sanitizing bottles is about the same effort as doing the same with a keg (I still think the keg sounds easier but its not a big problem), but isn't it easier to fill an close the corny than to fill and cap all those bottles? And if you do 2 batches at the same time (or >5gal batches) then the bottles won't fit in the dishwasher at once so you have additional steps, while cleaning a second corny should not be much additional effort?
And is there any difference between a keg conditioned beer and a bottle conditioned beer? I have used a Party Pig for a couple batches (not the same as a corny in operation but some similarities) and I can't tell the difference between the beer out of the Pig and a bottle from the same batch. You don't have to force carbonate the beer, do you?

Craig

Cleaning a keg is not as simple as throwing in oxyclean and letting it sit. You also have to take apart the little knick knacks where the gas goes in and beer goes out. Not to mention the regular cleaning of the tap and getting CO2 refils. The dishwasher is for cleaning not sanitizing and isn't a necessary step if you clean the bottles after you use them. I just do it as an extra step. I haven't done more than 5 gallons at once so I can't speak to the hassle caused by that. Keg conditioned vs bottle conditioned is a personal preference. I personally like bottle conditioned better. I can't say that I've ever heard anyone say they prefer keg conditioned over bottled, but I have heard people say the opposite.

My reasoning for picking bottles over kegs is not so much that the effort is equal it's that the effort isn't that much more than kegging and the benefits outweigh the disadvantages. I also have to fidget with the kegs to get the carbonation right. I've never had a problem with any bottles, well once I realized that I can't get them to carbonate on the cold basement floor.

CBBaron said:

If you don't have a kegerator you still need a separate fridge for any cornies you are serving. A corny is not going to fit in the kitchen fridge, so you still have considerable cost there unless you already have the fridge.
Craig

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Not necessarily

There are other alternatives abet more labor intensive. Such as using an Igloo Ice Cube in a manner similar to an Ice Cube Lagerator with frozen bottles of water in the corners that are replaced as they thaw.

Cornies don't have to be stored cold only served cold.

And while a spare refridgerator is certainly more convienent a used one can be pickup up very inexpensively and often for free. I see free one's all the time on Craig list.

Dkidwell83 said:

also the main reason for wanting to keg is i want nitrogen carbonation. but whats the cost difference assuming that i have no keg or bottles or anything for either of the ways. how much will it cost for both of them and what are some of the pros and cons for each.

Click to expand...

abracadabra said:

As far as the nitrogen you'll need a special regulator and the gas is twice as expensive as straight CO2.

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Don't buy a tank until you research where you will fill it.

You may be able to get away with CO2 tanks for beer gas mixture. Call around first. You'll probably need a dedicated CO2 tank as well.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=29745

Read my post within to see the method to use to carbonate and still use beer gas.

CBBaron said:

I give you that cleaning and sanitizing bottles is about the same effort as doing the same with a keg (I still think the keg sounds easier but its not a big problem), but isn't it easier to fill an close the corny than to fill and cap all those bottles? And if you do 2 batches at the same time (or >5gal batches) then the bottles won't fit in the dishwasher at once so you have additional steps, while cleaning a second corny should not be much additional effort?

Craig

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I can disassemble, wash, sanitize and reassemble a cornie in 10 minutes. There is no way on earth anyone can every come close to that with 50+ bottles. It takes longer than that just to rinse and drain 50 bottles for storage.

And you are right that filling and closing 1 corny is much easier and faster than filling and capping 50+.

Getting the carbonation right is not a problem. Here's what I do: pressurize at 25 PSI when I want to dispense I release most of the pressure when I've finished for the day I repressurize back to 25 PSI because I like a lot of CO2. Some people don't like a lot of CO2 so cornies are also more customizable to your tastes.

I'm not trying to convince anyone that 1 way is better than another. Like I said both have advantages and disavantages. And I both bottle and keg.

What I am trying to do is clear up some common misconceptions.

Another option if you don't have a spare fridge is a Jockey Box. https://www.homebrewtalk.com/wiki/index.php/Jockey_box
I did this for a little while and it works just fine...at least in the winter anyway. My garage will get in excess of 90 degrees in the summer and keg or not, thats not a good temp for beer.

first.. why nitrogen? what's the advantage?
second.. when i stroll in to the kitchen and pull a cool pint from the kegarator. i know exactly why i don't bottle. but to each his own.

I'm at the point now where I've bottled and kegged equal number of batches (about 8 each). There's obviously more work involved when it's the keg or bottle's first use. You have to take apart the poppets and dip tubes or remove labels with the bottles. Once you've used either vessel once, it becomes easier.

Another thing you can't do is criticize either method if you've just recently changed from one to the other. There's a learning/comfort curve, especially with kegging. I would put the ease of kegging about on par with bottling only if you already have enough bottles rinsed and ready to sanitize AND have a vinator pump style sanitizing pump. If you're the type that submerges bottles into a bucket of sanitizer then dump them out, forget it. Kegging is twice as fast. In the time it takes you to sanitize 10 bottles, my keg is ready to rack.

Of course, the ease of filling the vessel isn't the whole storry. Kegging makes bottling the odd bottle here and there a pain. I don't care, I don't give brew away.

Also, don't try comparing bottling to having one or two kegs. If you're going to keg, you best make the commitment and get 5-10 kegs in order to compete with the variety you'll have when bottling.

After 12 years and countless batches, I don't think I have bottled in about 5 years.
Bobby M is right about the learning curve to get comfortable with it...and I tend to brew for parties, rather than giving it away. I have two 5 gals, and four 3 gals, which when full I keep at room temp in my basement (60 degrees). I only have room in my 2nd frig for one, sometimes two, kegs at a time, which is the properly carbonated, ready to go keg. For dispensing to a group, I'll stick the keg in a round water cooler (Home Depot Orange!) full of ice, which keeps the bottom half frosty on a 5-gal, and the whole thing cold on a 3 gal.
I have had a third fridge, drilled through the door for two taps, with onboard co2...but when that fridge broke I have not replaced it, and probably lost 15 lbs to boot! Gettin' older, so now I'll have a glass of red wine or two every nite during the week, instead of ten mugs of homebrew...
A well brewed, well conditioned, clean beer, will be delicious kegged or bottled.