Some AG Q's: Efficiency/Mashout/Sparge

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bgcoving

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All;

My first two AG batches went pretty well...I have missed my OG's, though and my efficiency is in the 60-63% range. I am going to brew two more batches this weekend, and I am interested in getting that efficiency up. BTW, despite my misses, the first two batches are going to be quite fine, I think.

Q1). I have nailed my mash temp at 152F on both occasions just fine. Mash for 1-1.5 hrs. On the first batch I sparged at 170F with no mash out and on the second I attempted to mash out by raising the first batch of sparge water to 185 (1/2 volume), and then sparged at 180F. I think I am not raising the temp of the mash bed high enough to release all of the sugars. How high should I raise the temp of the mashout water to raise the temp of the grains to 168-170? I have been told to use a couple of gallons of water at 200-212F to accomplish this---Is this part of my sparge water?

Q2). Is there a formula to calculate the proper quantity/temp? I realize I might be an infidel, but I am using BeerTools instead of BeerSmith (I found the interface for BeerSmith too cluttered). Is there anyone who uses BeerTools who might give me a quick hint how to calculate that inside the scheduling section of the interface?

Q3). Is the 5.2 Buffer stuff sold by my LHBS worth the effort and is the PH that much of a factor (I realize it is, I am just wondering if there is anyone else out there who skips this step and gets high efficiency)?

TIA,

Brother Ben
 
Can't really help on the volume/temps because I use Beersmith and it does all of this for me;). As for pH, it really depends on the pH of the water you're using. If it's 7+, it certainly isn't a bad idea to use the buffer. For general efficiency increase, check your crush, of course. But also, what kind of MLT/filtering equipment and sparge technique are you using? I'm going to guess:D... cooler with a braid or bazooka and batch sparging?
 
bgcoving said:
All;

My first two AG batches went pretty well...I have missed my OG's, though and my efficiency is in the 60-63% range. I am going to brew two more batches this weekend, and I am interested in getting that efficiency up. BTW, despite my misses, the first two batches are going to be quite fine, I think.

Q1). I have nailed my mash temp at 152F on both occasions just fine. Mash for 1-1.5 hrs. On the first batch I sparged at 170F with no mash out and on the second I attempted to mash out by raising the first batch of sparge water to 185 (1/2 volume), and then sparged at 180F. I think I am not raising the temp of the mash bed high enough to release all of the sugars. How high should I raise the temp of the mashout water to raise the temp of the grains to 168-170? I have been told to use a couple of gallons of water at 200-212F to accomplish this---Is this part of my sparge water?

Yes it is part of your sparge water volume. I batch sparge and add enough water to the mash so I end up with equal volumes in 2 sparges. The water I add is at 212 and will get me close to 165 depending on the grain bill. Mashing out will only raise your efficiency by a couple of points.

Q2). Is there a formula to calculate the proper quantity/temp? I realize I might be an infidel, but I am using BeerTools instead of BeerSmith (I found the interface for BeerSmith too cluttered). Is there anyone who uses BeerTools who might give me a quick hint how to calculate that inside the scheduling section of the interface?

I use my own spreadsheet.

Q3). Is the 5.2 Buffer stuff sold by my LHBS worth the effort and is the PH that much of a factor (I realize it is, I am just wondering if there is anyone else out there who skips this step and gets high efficiency)?

I only need to use the 5.2 when mashing very pale beers. Anything with more then about 10% dark grains works fine without it with my water. If you do the iodine test it will tell you if you are getting complete conversion or not

TIA,

Brother Ben
Click to expand...

The biggest variable for your efficiency is your crush. Hope this helps.

GT
 
To add what others say: check how you're doing your crush. Also, I'd be weary about fly sparging with boiling water. You normally add boiling water in step infusion mashes. So far, I've gotten a few points more by doing a protien rest at 130, add enough boiling water to step the mash up to 153, then add enough water to mash out at 167. If you're mashing at 153 for an hour.....then I wouldn't think your mashing is a cuprit though
 
I only mash Briess 2-row for 45 mins and push 80% efficiency when batch sparging. I think I could get a little more by narrowing the gap on my BC mill a hair.

definitely consider the crush.

I also agree that pH 5.2 is great for pale/light colored beers, especially if you have alkaline, high pH tap water like me.
 
All;

Took the suggestions to heart and my third batch went well...used the 5.2 buffer. Hit my mash temp on the money, stirred twice during mash.

I had calculated 5 gallons sparge on top of 3.5 gallons mash water. I used two kettles, in one I put two gallons of water and added 1/2 gallon of first runoff and brought it to a boil and added it back to the MLT. This brought the mash temp up to 168-170, and I let it sit for 1/2 hour.

In the other I brought 3 1/2 gallons (to cover the thermometor probe) to 185. I had preheated the HLT. Vorlaufed 1 gallon and began collecting runnings. I also had another three gallons sitting by at just below boiling. Here's the problem: I wound up adding about another gallon of the standby water to the second sparge batch to get my 7.5 gallons preboil.

My predicted OG at 62% efficiency was 1.047, my actual was 1.052, my efficiency increased to 68.5% (or thereabouts). My scheduled mash time was 1hr, my actual was 1.5 hrs. I performed Iodine tests...

Question: Should I ignore the programmed mash times and keep the mash in the MLT until the iodine test shows clear, as that would up the efficiency even more? Should I increase the sparge water beyond the schedule like I wound up having to? I have a 150K BTU banjo burner and it boils off about 2 gals. per hour...

Planning a 4th brew session for early next week...

Thanks,

Brother Ben
 
I don't think adjusting mash temps will seriously change your effeciency: an hour at 153 degrees should get you a pretty good effeciency: step mashing seems to get me a few points more, but nothing that drastically changes the effeciency. You also run the risk of getting off flavors if you mash for too long. I'm also not sure what you mean about adding boiling run off to get a higher mash temp?? If you want to do a step infusion, you first calculate your strike water temp to get .9-1.25 qts water per pound of grain. It's either a very low temp for protein rest (I first start at 135 degrees for 30 mins). Then you add X amount of quarts boiling water to your mash to get the next temperature. Lately my step infusions have been starting the mash at 135 for 30 mins, go to 153 for 30 mins, go to 167 for 10 mins, then fly sparge out.

How are you crushing your grains? As everyone else has stated, I too have found that grain crush is the BIG variable for effeciency. One time when I noticed my effeciency starting to go down, I immediately checked the quality of my crush. I even tried a different grain mill and that got my effeciency back to the high 80s.
 
It depends on how you calculate efficiency. Temp has a lot to do with the type of sugars you are extracting. Lower temp mashes are more fermentable and higher mash temps are less fermentable. So even if you hit your SG, that doesn't mean it will ferment out the way you want it to if you have not mashed at the optimal temp. With the highly modified malts we all use step mashing is just an exercise. Just my .02


Eastside..........
 

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