RIS *may* be stuck. Bottle or not?

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Earendil

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My first Russian Imperial Stout has been in a secondary carboy for 9 weeks now. Here is how things happened:

  • Get ready to bottle.
  • The gravity has been steady at 1.030. The predicted FG is 1.029, perfect I say to myself!
  • I taste it, it tastes sweeter than I'd expect, but it's not sickeningly sweet and it a warm uncarbed RIS. And it's my First RIS, what do I know?
  • I transfer to bottling bucket with sugar.
  • Check notes again, realize that the predicted OG was 1.097 and my actual OG was 1.087.
  • Life happens, can't bottle.
  • Put lid on bottling bucket with the beer, add airlock.
  • Check this morning (12 hours later), water in S-airlock hasn't moved.
  • Go to work. Sit at work wondering if I should bottle when I get home.

So, I have three things that might be working against me, and I'm wondering what the course of action should be.
  1. Change in Gravity was not as predicted. 0.010 off.
  2. Sugar has sat with beet for what will be 20 hours prior to bottling
  3. Sugar didn't cause any new activity in the yeast (at least according to the air lock
)

I can find lots of information on how to kick start a stalled fermentation processes, but all of that is predicated on the FG not reaching it's mark. Technically I reached my mark, but I started lower to that mark, and other things I've read state that it's not so much the exact OG and FG you're aiming for, as much as the predicted change.

I've also had the experience of adding the sugar to the bottling bucket and stepping away from the processes for a while. It didn't take but a couple hours for the remaining yeast to gobble up the sugar and start moving the water in the airlock. The complete lack of movement concerns me I guess.

Since I'm going to bottle, I need that yeast to not be dead otherwise I'll have a flat RIS that's even sweater than what I tasted before.

Thoughts? Do I have any misinformation or am I being the noob that is blowing things out of proportion? This is only my 8th beer so I'm still relatively new at this :)
 
You could always try pitching some more yeast, but make sure you do a starter, or it will just die because of the alcohol. Some people say to add some amylase to dry it up a bit, but only add a little bit as it could potentially make your first RIS into jet fuel.

I had the same thing happen to a BlackIPA, but once the beer comes off the primary yeast cake, it won't drop much more.

and your beer will still have lots of yeast left in it unless it has been in a fridge for a month.
 
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I'd repitch yeast and give it a go for a few days at 70-75F. 1.087-1.029 is only 65% attenuation. What kind of yeast did you use? It is extremely bad attenuation for a medium gravity beer.

My 1.110 RIS I bottled a couple of weeks ago rang in at 1.034FG before bottling sugar. That is only 67% attenuation, but it was a much bigger beer. Used two packets of S05 in to a 4 gallon batch (rehydrated first). Mine is fairly sweet as well, but in a very pleasant mellow malty way. I cracked a bottle last night just to check that it was carbing. Still mild carbonation. I'd guess around 1.6-1.8 volumes and I should have carbed to about 2 volumes. So, probably another week or two to finish carbing, but it is carbing. Awesome beer, a little sad I am going to be waiting another few months to start drinking it. Waiting is the hardest part with big beers.

Big beers take awhile to restart the yeast and especially if your batch sat for awhile, it isn't going to just jump awake and munch the sugar. If you are worried about it, give it another couple of days and check the gravity to see if it dropped back to the pre-sugar addition levels.

I don't rely on airlock activity, ESPECIALLY with a bucket. They don't always seal great.
 
flars said:
How long was the RIS in the primary?
Click to expand...

3 weeks in primary, where it dropped to 1.032. I have a 5gl glass carboy so I transferred it to that for the 9 weeks to age to eliminate some of the surface exposure and because I wanted to use that bucket to brew more :)

So total time since brew day is 3 + 9 weeks.


azazel1024 said:
I'd repitch yeast and give it a go for a few days at 70-75F. 1.087-1.029 is only 65% attenuation. What kind of yeast did you use? It is extremely bad attenuation for a medium gravity beer.
Click to expand...

WLP001 is the yeast I used. Used a 4 liter starters. That all seemed to go quite well. Initial fermentation started quickly.

I have a Wyeast 1084 in the fridge that has an advertised alcohol tolerance of 12%. I could toss that in a starter over lunch. Worst case scenario I don't use it and end up having to brew my next stout this weekend. Bummer :)

azazel1024 said:
Waiting is the hardest part with big beers.
Click to expand...

Agreed! Why must I like them so much :)
Forgetting about them really is the trick. I was surprised it had been 9 weeks. I only checked because after this weekend I'll be incredibly busy for the next month.

azazel1024 said:
Big beers take awhile to restart the yeast and especially if your batch sat for awhile, it isn't going to just jump awake and munch the sugar. If you are worried about it, give it another couple of days and check the gravity to see if it dropped back to the pre-sugar addition levels.
Click to expand...

That a good point about the bigger beers being slower. I knew that was true of initial fermentation but wasn't considering for this state. I also didn't think that 2.5oz of sugar in 2 cups of water would raise the gravity a measurable amount. I can check that over lunch as well!

Thanks for all the help and tips, guys!
I don't think I can source the same yeast fast enough, so unless I get some advice to the contrary, I think I'll use the Wyeast 1084 in a starter and check the gravity now. If by Sunday nothing has happened, I'll add the starter and see if the gravity drops.

I wish I had figured this all out before adding sugar and transferring to the bottling bucket...
 
Earendil said:
3 weeks in primary, where it dropped to 1.032. I have a 5gl glass carboy so I transferred it to that for the 9 weeks to age to eliminate some of the surface exposure and because I wanted to use that bucket to brew more :)

So total time since brew day is 3 + 9 weeks.




WLP001 is the yeast I used. Used a 4 liter starters. That all seemed to go quite well. Initial fermentation started quickly.

I have a Wyeast 1084 in the fridge that has an advertised alcohol tolerance of 12%. I could toss that in a starter over lunch. Worst case scenario I don't use it and end up having to brew my next stout this weekend. Bummer :)



Agreed! Why must I like them so much :)
Forgetting about them really is the trick. I was surprised it had been 9 weeks. I only checked because after this weekend I'll be incredibly busy for the next month.



That a good point about the bigger beers being slower. I knew that was true of initial fermentation but wasn't considering for this state. I also didn't think that 2.5oz of sugar in 2 cups of water would raise the gravity a measurable amount. I can check that over lunch as well!

Thanks for all the help and tips, guys!
I don't think I can source the same yeast fast enough, so unless I get some advice to the contrary, I think I'll use the Wyeast 1084 in a starter and check the gravity now. If by Sunday nothing has happened, I'll add the starter and see if the gravity drops.

I wish I had figured this all out before adding sugar and transferring to the bottling bucket...
Click to expand...

Well, if you are adding the "proper" amount of sugar to prime to about 2-2.5 volumes, it should be raising it around .002.

Sugar adds .044 per pound in 1 gallon. 2.5 ounces is .007 for 1 gallon, .0035 for 2 gallons, etc.

I know for me, something like 3.5oz in 5 gallons (roughly 2.5 volumes for a typical beer) would be almost exactly .002 points of gravity.

If you are adding your priming sugar before taking a gravity measurement, be sure to subtract .002 from your FG reading. Since I always take my readings after adding bottling sugar, I always account for the difference when writing down my numbers. Also, it WILL make the beer noticably sweeter to the taste if you are trying the beer with it mixed it. I've tried this a couple of times pulling a small sample from my bottling bucket before adding priming sugar and then comparing next to the "dregs" of my bucket (whatever won't fit in the "final" bottle) and the dregs are noticably sweeter.
 
I would suggest buying a couple more fermenting buckets. A beer with fermentation problems may have a better chance to recover when it is still on the original yeast cake.
 
Earendil said:
so unless I get some advice to the contrary, I think I'll use the Wyeast 1084 in a starter and check the gravity now. If by Sunday nothing has happened, I'll add the starter and see if the gravity drops...
Click to expand...

Make sure that if you add a different yeast strain, that you do not bottle right away. Give some time to make sure the old FG will be the new FG. Incase the new yeast is more efficient.
 
Well, I bottled this last night after the gravity leveled off at 1.020. This represents the exact amount of total change that the recipe predicted (0.06), even if the start and end gravities were not accurate.

I'll report back in the fall with the result. Of course, I've never made this one before so I won't know how my "unique" process has effected it, but I can report on whether it's a good beer or not :)
 
My suggestion, especially if you made a large volume, is to try a bottle a month. Yeah, big beers pretty much need 6-12 months, but you know what, you'll appreciate how it is aging and changing over time.

Besides, a 1.080OG RIS isn't a particularly big gravity. It'll probably hit it's stride at about 3 months and peak before 6.

It is the 1.100 stuff that you are looking more like hitting a stride at 6 months with a peak possibly from 12-24 months (longer the heavier the beer often, but that is NOT a rule).
 
azazel1024 said:
My suggestion, especially if you made a large volume, is to try a bottle a month. Yeah, big beers pretty much need 6-12 months, but you know what, you'll appreciate how it is aging and changing over time.

Besides, a 1.080OG RIS isn't a particularly big gravity. It'll probably hit it's stride at about 3 months and peak before 6.

It is the 1.100 stuff that you are looking more like hitting a stride at 6 months with a peak possibly from 12-24 months (longer the heavier the beer often, but that is NOT a rule).
Click to expand...

Thanks, and yeah, I probably will. I'm just weary of coming back here after a few weeks in the bottle and relating my experience. It seems that makes the locals mad ;-)

Also, it's already been 3 months since brew day, so after a couple weeks of carbing up in the bottles it'll be well on it's way to having some character.
 

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