Switches for brew control panel.

I am planning my control panel to go into a old computer case. The case will contain everything including the spa panel cords and outlets. The spa panel circuit breaker will only be available when the top is off.

So my questions are:
With the PID SSR setup I have there is only one leg controlled by the SSR. Does that mean there is still 125V going to the element at all times?

If I can not get to the breaker without opening up the case should I put a switch to turn off the power to both legs when not in use?

Would a DPST switch rated at 16A/125VAC work for this. I am running a 4500W element at 240 for 18.75 amps does this equal 9 amps per leg or do I need to get a 20 amp switch? I am thinking Mcmaster part #8011k83
http://www.mcmaster.com/#8001k83/=5tx9f4.

Also I am contemplating putting in a HLT element. and using the same power as the keggle to run it. Would a DPDT switch be a good idea here to switch back and forth? Should I add a switch to depower the PID in this configuration as there would be a different controller for that element? Would on/off switches be a good idea for each controller anyways?

Photopilot said:

I am planning my control panel to go into a old computer case. The case will contain everything including the spa panel cords and outlets. The spa panel circuit breaker will only be available when the top is off.

So my questions are:
With the PID SSR setup I have there is only one leg controlled by the SSR. Does that mean there is still 125V going to the element at all times? Yes. The leg that is not switched by the SSR will be hot.

If I can not get to the breaker without opening up the case should I put a switch to turn off the power to both legs when not in use?
Good idea.

Would a DPST switch rated at 16A/125VAC work for this. I am running a 4500W element at 240 for 18.75 amps does this equal 9 amps per leg or do I need to get a 20 amp switch? I am thinking Mcmaster part #8011k83
http://www.mcmaster.com/#8001k83/=5tx9f4.
I do not recommend those switches. You will have 19 amps on BOTH legs with 240V between them. Those switches are rated at current at 125V. Besides, I don't like the idea of touching a switch that has high current running through it. I prefer this solution in all cases.

Also I am contemplating putting in a HLT element. and using the same power as the keggle to run it. Would a DPDT switch be a good idea here to switch back and forth? Should I add a switch to depower the PID in this configuration as there would be a different controller for that element? Would on/off switches be a good idea for each controller anyways?
You will need a separate PID and SSR to control the second element, which it sounds like you have or at least know you need. For power, I suggest this switch or one like it, and two of the contactors I linked above. Mains power comes in, splits to the two contactors. Three way switch chooses which contactor closes. You don't care what the PIDs are doing, because even if they activate (close) the SSR, the element won't be getting any power unless you've turned it on by the switch. The coils on those contactors are 120V, so you need to make sure you have a neutral on your power feed. Simple, elegant, and safe.

Click to expand...

This should get you where you want to go. There are other ways to accomplish this, but this is the cleanest IMO.

MrH

Thanks MrH,

Also there is a 25A contactor from Aubeins. Any reason not to go with that one for this appplication?

That should be fine up to 5500W. Keep in mind that if you do choose to go to 5500W you'll need to run 10ga wire at a minimum, so I'd plan accordingly. I recommend SJOOW (cord) to make it easier to wire inside your CP. This is the fat flexible cord you can find at a big box store $1.50 to $2.00/ft. It's easy to strip out the individual wires and they're much easier to use than THHN, depending on how much room you have in your CP.

What about something simple, like this? Would this not be effective and/or safe and be more simple?

illin8 said:

What about something simple, like this? Would this not be effective and/or safe and be more simple?

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I used that on BrewBeast.

Get an outdoor switch cover for it, and bam... you are good to go IMHO

illin8 said:

What about something simple, like this? Would this not be effective and/or safe and be more simple?

Click to expand...

This is not a 3-way switch. Using two of these switches to individually control two elements can be done, but it is considerably less safe, since you're now introducing the element of human error (the distinct possibility that the user will inadvertantly turn on both switches at the same time). If you (generic you) design for that by using a 6ga feed to the panel and fusing each element, you're basically designing to be able to use both elements simultaneously. If that's your goal, that's fine, but you have to decide that up front.

Keep in mind, though, that once you get to 6ga, everything starts getting very expensive fast. By the time he sources two of those swithes, waterproof covers, a 6ga feed, plus individual fusing of the elements, this will end up costing much more than using a 30a feed and switching between elements. It is still a viable way to go, but like I said, it has to be designed that way from the start.


MrH

Whoops...guess I missed the fact that he needed a three-way switch. Did I miss where a 6ga feed is required somewhere?

For the switch, I was referring to controlling a 30 amp fed 5,500 w ULWD element controlled by a PID.

Photopilot said:

I am planning my control panel to go into a old computer case. The case will contain everything including the spa panel cords and outlets. The spa panel circuit breaker will only be available when the top is off.

So my questions are:
With the PID SSR setup I have there is only one leg controlled by the SSR. Does that mean there is still 125V going to the element at all times?
Yes, you will have 120V of potential on the element at one time, but no current

If I can not get to the breaker without opening up the case should I put a switch to turn off the power to both legs when not in use?
would be advisable

Would a DPST switch rated at 16A/125VAC work for this. I am running a 4500W element at 240 for 18.75 amps does this equal 9 amps per leg or do I need to get a 20 amp switch? I am thinking Mcmaster part #8011k83
http://www.mcmaster.com/#8001k83/=5tx9f4.
its 19A per leg. I'd recommend the contactor as a low current solution. As a personal practice I try to keep the high current stuff as far away as possible from the control panel and the length of wire they use and terminations to an absolute minimum.
Also I am contemplating putting in a HLT element. and using the same power as the keggle to run it. Would a DPDT switch be a good idea here to switch back and forth? Should I add a switch to depower the PID in this configuration as there would be a different controller for that element? Would on/off switches be a good idea for each controller anyways?

Click to expand...

Is there a PID on the BK? The HLT will likely need its own PID unless you have a way of switching the temperature probe input to it.

I would have a 3 position switch for each set of elements. Position 1 Hand (Manual On) Position 2 Off (Manual Off) position 3 Auto (PID controlled.) This give you an option to manually override the PID output to the element.

Ohio Ed's electrical question thread covers this pretty exensively

The Pol said:

I used that on BrewBeast.

Get an outdoor switch cover for it, and bam... you are good to go IMHO

Click to expand...

Sorry, I am lost with all of these electric threads, didnt realize that you were looking for a 3 pos. switch solution. This will only work for ON/OFF single throw

The Pol said:

Sorry, I am lost with all of these electric threads,

Click to expand...

LOL, see what you started?

MrH said:

LOL, see what you started?

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I didnt start the fire, it was always burning, since the worlds been turning...

CodeRage said:

Is there a PID on the BK? The HLT will likely need its own PID unless you have a way of switching the temperature probe input to it.

Click to expand...

Just got back from my Welder and have my new Keggle in front of me, very excited for my next day off, hopefully Thursday.

Here is the plan so far.

PID, SSR, Heatsync and RTD probe are in hand for the Keggle.

I am looking to use a Love controller (TSS2) to monitor and control both the HLT and MLT. It is able to monitor, and display the temp for two different thermocouplers and control two outputs as well. This need for a HLT element came recently after doing my first two mashes. Somewhere in my system is a heat loss that could be used to solve global warming if i could find the source of it.

I like the rotating switch for switching between one and the other element. I am looking to design for a 30 amp circuit as there should always be a dryer outlet available, 10 gauge is cheaper, and I already have the dryer cord in hand.

It looks like difference should only be around $15 between the two setups and i think the rotary switch would look more elegant. I plan on adding a few other toggle style switches to run a pump or whatever else is needed, not sure yet.

CodeRage said:

I would have a 3 position switch for each set of elements. Position 1 Hand (Manual On) Position 2 Off (Manual Off) position 3 Auto (PID controlled.) This give you an option to manually override the PID output to the element.

Click to expand...

• Would this take another 3 way switch and 2 contactors for each element?
• Would this also need a 3 way switch between the two elements to prevent a double load?
• Would setting the PID or controller to 220 degrees not do the same thing as Manual On?

CodeRage said:

Ohio Ed's electrical question thread covers this pretty exensively

Click to expand...

I will look for this thread and see what i can learn.

One thing to consider is wiring a 30 amp, 240 vac outlet on your control box. Then you could simply plug in your HLT when you are mashing and then plug in your BK when you are boiling your wort. That way, you will only need one circuit (one pid, one or two SSRs, and two contactors).
You don't really need an RTD or thermocouple in your BK. You will run the PID in manual mode (percent power) to control the BK. If you decide to use one PID, you can mount the RTD on the HLT.

stevehaun said:

One thing to consider is wiring a 30 amp, 240 vac outlet on your control box.

Click to expand...

I may do that anyways to have a way to dismantle the system as it needs to be put away after each use.

My new plan is to add a 1500 W 240 element into the HLT. Right now my HLT is a retired bottling bucket, will probably need something bigger for 10 gallon batches? I will do the primary heating in the BK (4500W) and just use the HLT element to keep it at temp. I should be able to run both of these concurrently with 30 Amps. Maybe a 4 way switch would be good for All-off, HLT-on, BK-on, Both-on. I will need a pump soon also.

I like the idea of having an RTD in the keg as I will be immersion chilling and preheating all water for the HLT there. So i can monitor the temps. A single love controller can monitor and display temps on the HLT and MLTs. Might I be better served using the RTD in the MLT, and thermocouplers elsewhere, as that is where temps seem most crucial?