Crankandstein mill options

So I've just got in on my first bulk buy and now I'm looking for a mill. I'm pretty set on a Crankandstein mill but I'm not sure which model. Crankandstein Homebrewing Mills I've heard you get higher efficiency and a better sparge using a 3 roller but I can't swing the 3D one. Does anyone have experience in the 2D vs the 3E models? Looks like the 2D is the 2 roller that's easiest to adjust but the 3E has 3 rollers but may be more complicated to adjust the gap. Does anyone know if the difficulty adjusting is worth having the 3rd roller?

I have the 3 roller. The gap is easy to set. The gap of first pair of rollers is fixed, it is just the 3rd roller that adjusts. I really like to finely crush my grain so I still usually double crush. I always condition my malt (mix in a little water) and this helps to keep the husks in large pieces, it also though swells the grain a little so with my motorized set up I have to ahve the gap a little wider, or my belt drive slips.

You certainly don't need a 3 roller. Get the adjustable two roller. I'd stay away from crankandstein though. The machining was definitely sub par on mine.

I've heard good and bad on all mills. Luckily if I have issues they are produced locally, in fact if I do go with a C&S I can pick it up myself. If people have had good results with a 2 roller that saves me some change for building a hopper.

I just got this with a 1/2" drive and i am happy with it.
http://www.monsterbrewinghardware.com/mm-2.html

i think they are local too mine came from marietta Ga i think but dont remeber

By looking at monster and crankenstien,
I figure its not much more to go from 2 roller to 3. And if you are going to spend the $$$ might as well get the best.


Question i have is,
I am sure there is more than 2 mill companys out there, What mill would be best to buy.
If i am going to send $200. on a mill i am willing to pay 300 if i know this will last a lifetime...Parts replaceable etc..... But i know there is times, Just cause it cost quite a pretty penny dont mean it will hold up any longer than the $75.00 model.

i think the 3 roller deal is a just for megalomaniacs
something I offton suffer from.
but in the case of a mill two, six inch rollers will do the job very well three just make more flour and take more power to drive.
the MM is a better deal imho it is 6 inch and has better adjustments than the 5 inch crankinstein

The C&S have a lifetime warranty, they'll replace the rollers when they wear down or if anything else comes up. Maybe the 3 roller is a little overkill...but isn't that part of what we do

The idea of the 3 roller is to pre-crush the grain. This allows the husk to be removed from the grain without damaging it. The theory is to leave larger and more husk in tact for a better filter bed. It will not speed throughput (at least in theory) or have any ground breaking affect on your brewing. Just a better crush if you are willing to pay for it.

Well if that's the thought behind it then its not necessary for me, I'm going BIAB so I won't need a filter bed. Hopefully I can get this soon, I'm already itching to do my first BIAB coming from extract.

I have a BC... Id prefer the Monster Mill I think. Most mills are lifetime warranty. My BC is a lifetime warranty mill... good thing too, I needed a new one after 6 months.

My CS works quite well. No machining problems at all.

Pete08 said:

My CS works quite well. No maching problems at all.

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Which model do you have?

I bought the cheapest Crankandstein mill that was available (2s) with a hopper. Unadjusted, it produces excellent crush which I get 90% brewhouse efficiency. I've had nothing but good experiences with it.

I am not a big fan of the monstermills use of bushings over bearings. It seems like a cheapskate move given only 4 are required and the product is $100+. Maybe it doesn't matter but given all the people using pulleys/gearing, it seems like bearings would be a good idea.

uncia said:

I am not a big fan of the monstermills use of bushings over bearings. It seems like a cheapskate move given only 4 are required and the product is $100+. Maybe it doesn't matter but given all the people using pulleys/gearing, it seems like bearings would be a good idea.

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I think the use of bushings is to keep the cost down. The proper type of sealed roller bearings would probably cost more than $100 alone. There's really nothing wrong with using bushings on these mills as they are designed for home use, not commercial applications. The Barley Crusher guy makes a mill designed for Micro Breweries:

http://www.barleycrusher.com/barleycrushermicro.php

I have no idea what that baby costs, but I'm sure it's not cheap.

$100 doesn't seem like a lot of money for a mill. Figure the cost of materials, labor and overhead and there's not much room left to make a buck. I don't think any of these mill manufacturers are making a killing selling these things.

johnnyc said:

Which model do you have?

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I have the 2A. You can make any adjustment you need.

uncia said:

I am not a big fan of the monstermills use of bushings over bearings. It seems like a cheapskate move given only 4 are required and the product is $100+. Maybe it doesn't matter but given all the people using pulleys/gearing, it seems like bearings would be a good idea.

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Actually, bushings are better than you think. I don't know of any water pumps in cars that have bearings. Well, some water pumps in the 30s did, but manufacturers switched to bushings. Many auto alternators and many electric motors rely on bushings. Heck, crank and rod bearings in an engine are nothing more than split bushings. Point is, the bushings in these cases will see many more revolutions than some little barley crusher in a homebrewer's garage.

Not trying to argue, but to say bushings are inferior is, well, unsubstantiated.

Many people use pulleys on their mills and bearings better deal with radial loading than bushings. Now, perhaps the uneven wearing and higher friction under load isn't a concern for the average homebrewer and this doesn't really matter at all.

As for the extra cost, crankandstein does it for around the same price.

uncia said:

As for the extra cost, crankandstein does it for around the same price.

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I am confused. All the mills made for homebrewers use oil impregnated bushings, not bearings. That includes the CS, MM, and BC. They all use bushings. Am I misunderstanding something?

My crank and stein is a gem. Never had a problem and highly recommend it.

uncia said:

Many people use pulleys on their mills and bearings better deal with radial loading than bushings. Now, perhaps the uneven wearing and higher friction under load isn't a concern for the average homebrewer and this doesn't really matter at all.

As for the extra cost, crankandstein does it for around the same price.

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have you contemplated the effects of grain dust on bearings and the need for cleaning and lubrication Vs your preceded benefit?
are you a Mechanical engineer?
maybe you are wrong and that is why you dont see bearings on any roller mills that size. the same is true of industral planers and sanders

uncia said:

As for the extra cost, crankandstein does it for around the same price.

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They do? The specs and details listed on the Crankandstein web page states that they use SAE-841 bronze bearings which are actually bronze bushings. I don't know of any mill that uses ball or roller bearings. They all use oil impregnated bronze bushings AFAIK.

Clayton said:

have you contemplated the effects of grain dust on bearings and the need for cleaning and lubrication Vs your preceded benefit?
are you a Mechanical engineer?
maybe you are wrong and that is why you dont see bearings on any roller mills that size. the same is true of industral planers and sanders

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I think rail cars ride on bushings too. That should tell you something about their durability.

wow, This is amazing how this went from a simple question to a debate on bushings.
Allmost reminds me of a debate on if secondary your beer is a waist of time or not.


Have a beer.

I think the key is reduction in friction vs. durability. A manual transmission can ride in a pilot bushing or bearing and while a bearing may have less friction than a bushing, in dusty or dirty environments a bearing can get crap in it and seize up. There aren't any moving parts in a bushing so there's nothing to break but it can wear out quicker. Also bushings hold up to vibration better. Just my 2c

Wow... didn't mean to ruffle so many feathers.

I must have been spacing out when I was reading up on the crankandsteins but for whatever reason I remembered them using bearings. After looking again, I guess you are right. My mistake.

And perhaps you all are right that for mills in the $100-$300 price range, it makes no sense and the money would be better spent on larger rollers / better construction / etc.

Anyway, it doesn't really matter to me one way or another because I will be using a gear motor so all of this bushing vs bearing trade off talk is of little consequence to me.

By the way, has anyone seen this beast in person? It looks terrifying.
http://www.mashmaster.com/p/461095/...does-not-include-hopper-and-crank-handle.html

damn that thing is kick ass , and kick ass mills are always on topic

uncia said:

By the way, has anyone seen this beast in person? It looks terrifying.
http://www.mashmaster.com/p/461095/...does-not-include-hopper-and-crank-handle.html

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I think that unit is made in Australia. The list a selling price of $235 plus shipping and I bet the shipping would be substantial as heavy as that thing looks. That price also does not include the hopper or a crank handle, although I doubt many would hand crank it. Looks like it would require the installation of a close fitting plate to prevent grain from getting into the gear drive, but that shouldn't be too difficult to overcome. I do like the large diameter rollers and it appears to be built like a tank. I would consider buying one if I did not already have a satisfactory mill.

Ok another related question, when my LHBS mills my grain he runs his drill high speed the whole time. I hear from others that it should be run at a lower rpm. For you guys that mill your own does speed matter? Other than having to sit there of course.

The mashmaster is awesome, unfortunately when I got a shipping quote it was $130 shipping IIRC. They also sell a refractometer that reads in specific gravity... damn them.

johnnyc said:

Ok another related question, when my LHBS mills my grain he runs his drill high speed the whole time. I hear from others that it should be run at a lower rpm. For you guys that mill your own does speed matter? Other than having to sit there of course.

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Yes, the speed of the mill does matter. The faster speed will generally produce more fines and flour, but it's not usually a problem because you can compensate by adjusting the mill gap providing the mill is adjustable. IOW, it's the end product that counts, not the specific speed or gap setting. I like to mill at relatively low rpms as it generates much less dust. I'm a slow miller. Sometimes it takes me as much as fifteen minutes to mill the grain for a 12 gallon batch.

Thanks for the info everyone, it sucks but I may have to wait til xmas for it Maybe in the meantime I'll use a mill of one of the other local guys.

winstonofbeer said:

wow, This is amazing how this went from a simple question to a debate on bushings.
Allmost reminds me of a debate on if secondary your beer is a waist of time or not.


Have a beer.

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Sorry to upset your apple cart. My BS meter was reading brown in regards to the comments about the use of bushings and the potential besmirching of a product using said items. Just wanted to stem the tide. Have your beer.

Pete08 said:

Actually, bushings are better than you think. I don't know of any water pumps in cars that have bearings. Well, some water pumps in the 30s did, but manufacturers switched to bushings. Many auto alternators and many electric motors rely on bushings.

Not trying to argue, but to say bushings are inferior is, well, unsubstantiated.

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Your pipe must be overloaded with some wacky off brand of hops with those above statements on automobiles. Beyond belief is all I can say.

Not to mention if you have problems w/ it is you're out at least 6 months.

If you have any questions on Crankandstein, please send an email to Don. He builds them all by hand, for particular purposes. He will help you pick the right one. He also stands by his products 100%. I have seen him re groove the rollers on ones that were worn out by a commercial brewery for no charge! There was a short period when an ex salesperson started making inferior mills under the Crankandstein name. That is no longer a problem. And Don is out in his shop in the95 degree heat right now working on them! He will earn your business!

dayglo said:

If you have any questions on Crankandstein, please send an email to Don.There was a short period when an ex salesperson started making inferior mills under the Crankandstein name.

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Your above statement is why I elected to purchase a Monster Mill thinking better quality vs a Crakenstein mill, WRONG! A better mill for my $246 cash investment, NO! A rather large sum just for this Monster Mill YES!. Yeah I got a massive scared up side plates and bushings damaged lemon with the only way to reslove it was to get my money back no mill exchange ever offered this with a brand new still in box as delivered. Pictures were posted on this forum long ago after this MM purchase. I would of been without a mill not a replacement by Monster Mill was the reason why I went forward with rebuilding this Monster Mill so it can even be used at all, yes it was that bad vs just a cash refund that was offered. A replacement mill was never mentioned or offered after several emails just a cash back refund. Burnt once shy twice by anything from Fred at Monster Mill.

dayglo said:

There was a short period when an ex salesperson started making inferior mills under the Crankandstein name. That is no longer a problem.

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Are these the inferior mills that the ex sales person is making, but now under a different name?:

http://www.monsterbrewinghardware.com/index.html

If so, can you point out what's inferior about them? I was under the impression that the MM mills were of a somewhat superior design as for one thing the roller axels are integral with the roller and not screwed or pressed in. Otherwise they seem to be nearly identical in construction and features.