Proposed Style Guidelines. Cascadian Dark Ale

or Kentucky common. Or the division of North and South in respect to the English brown ales. Geographical distinctions happen in beer.

david_42 said:

Is someone unhappy about California Common?

Click to expand...

It was first brewed in California, and nearly 100% of current production is in California, so no.

I am unhappy with Oregon claiming a beer that was brewed in Texas before they guy that named it CDA in Portland was born.

This is from the link that was provided earlier:

Ironic considering we called it
California Dark in deference to our friends on the West Coast who we
felt "invented" the category (if one can actually "invent" a beer
category. . .).

I should note that California is very much a part of "Cascadia."

Thakog said:

This is from the link that was provided earlier:

Ironic considering we called it
California Dark in deference to our friends on the West Coast who we
felt "invented" the category (if one can actually "invent" a beer
category. . .).

I should note that California is very much a part of "Cascadia."

Click to expand...

People in Oregon were all drinking Henry Weinhard's back then, which is why they limited it to California. Note the Californian's wanted to give credit to Texas. Let's go with Southwest Dark Ale, shall we?

My contention has always been to name it after the region that really popularized it, which I feel is the pacific northwest/west coast. (Stone has a pretty popular version.)

However, Southwest Dark Ale has a nice sound to it. I like it better than American Dark Ale, and much better than the black ipa name.

I am pleased that AMERICAN's invented it, I would prefer the rest of the world knew it too, doubt anyone has heard of Cascadia, is that a location in the new avatar movie?

Whatever. Obviously our little discussion here will not solve anything.

remilard said:

I am unhappy with Oregon claiming a beer that was brewed in Texas before they guy that named it CDA in Portland was born.

Click to expand...

I believe if we go back through this thread you will find that more folks in WASHINGTON and Northern CALIFORNIA are saying hell yeah to CDA...I haven't even given a hell yeah to it. Even Abram isn't singling out OR...not sure why so many here are. I agree there may be something better. I like the name, but I'm sure not married to it at all...

I actually quite liked the idea of a 14D.

I'm waiting for a new Trey Parker/Matt Stone movie, "Team Cascadia".

"Pacific Northwest! **** YEAH!"

I propose a Great Wall of Cascadia....keep all the rest of you out and the beer in.

So anyone have a recipe for one of these? Maybe a clone of one of the ones that are listed as "Commercial Examples?"

Or am I not allowed to brew one b/c I don't live in the Pacific NW?

Hey, Oakshire Brewing has one! My favorite formerly local brewer Matt Van Wyk is there now. Would love to try their version. It really is Vermont's beer. Last night I had the Southern Tier (NY) Iniquity on tap and would love to clone that stuff! Amazingly good.

Beerrific said:

Or am I not allowed to brew one b/c I don't live in the Pacific NW, Texas, or Vermont?

Click to expand...

There..fixed that for you.

The easiest solution is for everyone to promise to make a pilgramige to Vermont Pub and Brewery, pay their respects to Greg Noonan, and brew Dark Cascadian/Texas/Vermont-non-pale-India-style-ale in his honor.

Would you guys please finally stop whining like little girls? Brewers in the North West created this style and they want to call it Cascadian Dark Ale. So why so many poo-pood faces here? Next time just come up with something on your own and call it whatever you want, but for this style you're too late. Good luck next time, though.

wait for it...

Scooby_Brew said:

Would you guys please finally stop whining like little girls? Brewers in the North West created this style and they want to call it Cascadian Dark Ale. So why so many poo-pood faces here? Next time just come up with something on your own and call it whatever you want, but for this style you're too late. Good luck next time, though.

Click to expand...

Perhaps it's time to lock the thread when commenters no longer bother to read the whole thing, and keep re-starting arguments ...

Scooby_Brew said:

Would you guys please finally stop whining like little girls? Brewers in the North West created this style and they want to call it Cascadian Dark Ale. So why so many poo-pood faces here? Next time just come up with something on your own and call it whatever you want, but for this style you're too late. Good luck next time, though.

Click to expand...

It appears the crux of the issue is that they *didn't* and are merely trying to steal credit for their gain.

IMO a poorly veiled marketing campaign with the proposed name.

Scooby_Brew said:

Would you guys please finally stop whining like little girls? Brewers in the North West created this style and they want to call it Cascadian Dark Ale. So why so many poo-pood faces here? Next time just come up with something on your own and call it whatever you want, but for this style you're too late. Good luck next time, though.

Click to expand...

But they didn't create it?

/thread

Kilted Brewer said:

I believe if we go back through this thread you will find that more folks in WASHINGTON and Northern CALIFORNIA are saying hell yeah to CDA...I haven't even given a hell yeah to it. Even Abram isn't singling out OR...not sure why so many here are. I agree there may be something better. I like the name, but I'm sure not married to it at all...

I actually quite liked the idea of a 14D.

Click to expand...

I'm from Oregon, for the record.

I like the 14D idea because it includes things that home brewers are brewing a lot (Rye IPA, Arrogant Bastard clones, a Brutal Bitter clone would fit well as it is IPA strength but not using American or English type hops) that would otherwise be excluded. I don't think there are so many black IPAs brewed by home brewers that they merit their own category and don't see why they can't be judged along side brown roasty IPAs (which I think the CDA guideline includes), amber/unroasty brown IPAs (red rocket, arrogant bastard) and Rye IPAs. This would also take a lot of stuff OUT of 23 which is a category that gets a ton of entries, many of them some sort of "other" IPA.

scooby_brew said:

would you guys please finally stop whining like little girls? Brewers in the north west created this style and they want to call it cascadian dark ale. So why so many poo-pood faces here? Next time just come up with something on your own and call it whatever you want, but for this style you're too late. Good luck next time, though.

Click to expand...

................................

Ruh roh!!!!

phasedweasel said:

perhaps it's time to lock the thread when commenters no longer bother to read the whole thing, and keep re-starting arguments ...

Click to expand...

tokyoroad said:

it appears the crux of the issue is that they *didn't* and are merely trying to steal credit for their gain.

Imo a poorly veiled marketing campaign with the proposed name.

Click to expand...

wtf scooby??

Category 23 unless you can get it in 10C.

This is a fad right now, and while it will continue to be brewed for years to come I'm sure, I don't think it in any way deserves a category. This will not make it to the BJCP guidelines and even if it does I would assume they would not let it come off so pretentious.
A beer more deserving of a category is a Quad.

I can understand all the bad energy, because those who live outside the future Republic of Cascadia are scared crapless that we Cascadians will withhold our greatest natural resource from you outsiders: HOPS.

We got the hops. We'll name the style what we want.

I'll give you my Cascadian (and Cascade) Hops when you pry them from my cold, dead hands.



CASCADIA RISE!

alexdagrate said:

I can understand all the bad energy, because those who live outside the future Republic of Cascadia are scared crapless that we Cascadians will withhold our greatest natural resource from you outsiders: HOPS.

We got the hops. We'll name the style what we want.

I'll give you my Cascadian (and Cascade) Hops when you pry them from my cold, dead hands.

CASCADIA RISE!

Click to expand...

This almost didn't deserve a reply. But at least you made me laugh with your lack of rational argument.

Enjoy that!

My Kentuckian Dark Ale is certainly tasty.

Deschutes Hop in the Dark Cascadian Dark Ale debuts this May (Beernews.org)

Look, once a more respected and larger brewery like Deschutes starts using the term, it's going to stick. Widmer's Pitch Black is labeled an IPA, but the words "Cascadian Dark" are still on there. It's only a matter of time before the widely-distributed (but not as reputable) Cascadian breweries make CDAs. Be on the lookout for CDAs from Redhook, Pyramid, Mactarnahan's, and Full Sail.

The first line of that article site Black IPA as the style and CDA as the name.

I still fail to see why Cascade hops have to be in a dark hopped up beer. I don't use any in mine.

imperial american brown ale

alexdagrate said:

Deschutes Hop in the Dark Cascadian Dark Ale debuts this May (Beernews.org)

Look, once a more respected and larger brewery like Deschutes starts using the term, it's going to stick. Widmer's Pitch Black is labeled an IPA, but the words "Cascadian Dark" are still on there. It's only a matter of time before the widely-distributed (but not as reputable) Cascadian breweries make CDAs. Be on the lookout for CDAs from Redhook, Pyramid, Mactarnahan's, and Full Sail.

Click to expand...

who cares.

OR should be sold to Canada for poutine and curling rocks.

ODaniel said:

I still fail to see why Cascade hops have to be in a dark hopped up beer. I don't use any in mine.

Click to expand...

No one ever said you had to use Cascade hops.

motobrewer said:

who cares.

OR should be sold to Canada for poutine and curling rocks.

Click to expand...

I guess you'd restrict yourself to just EKG and Czech Saaz?

Kilted Brewer said:

No one ever said you had to use Cascade hops.

Click to expand...

Cascadian Dark Ale? They push the Northwestern hops in the description. Are there any other hops from there?

ODaniel said:

Are there any other hops from there?

Click to expand...

AHTANUM
AMARILLO
CASCADE
CENTENNIAL
CHINOOK
CRYSTAL
GALENA
HORIZON
LIBERTY
MAGNUM
MT. HOOD
NUGGET
PALISADE
STATUS
SIMCOE
STERLING
TOMAHAWK (COLUMBUS)
ULTRA
VANGUARD
WARRIOR
WILLAMETTE
BRAVO
ZEUS

The only hop-growing regions in North America are all located within the borders of Cascadia: The Willamette Valley of Oregon, the Yakima Valley of Washington, and Treasure Valley of Idaho.

There are locations growing hops outside of Cascadia within North America, but they are very small in acreage.

I see, so now any beer is Cascadian?

Or maybe we should research where the barley was grown?

The credit for my award winning ribs should definitely absolutely go to the region the pig grew up in, or the region where the brown sugar was grown...........

And for the record, I grow my own hops.

There is no Cascadia unless they defeat the Conch Republic in a land war.

As a resident of Cascadia, and a huge proponent of this style and the proposed name, I would like to offer a truce.

First off, I love America, but in an "America the Beautiful" kind of way and not so much a "Star-Spangled Banner" or "Proud to be an American" kind of way. America kicks ass in our land, our culture, and our beer. I've lived all over the USA (grew up an Army brat and had to move around a lot) and we've got a lot of great places and great beers.

Please keep in mind that the Cascadia movement is largely TONGUE IN CHEEK. Cascadians are a rain-soaked type who take pride in the natural beauty of the PNW and many of us like to imagine the "Republic of the West" first envisioned by Thomas Jefferson.

Just as the IPA was first developed in Burton, but became something special in the USA, the CDA was independently developed by breweries and homebrewers around the country, but it's becoming very popular in the PNW, especially in Portland. Go to the Horse Brass Pub there sometime and check out the taplist, they had no fewer than 4 taps labeled CDA or Black IPA last time I went.

It comes down to this: It's a cool name, and has a bit of wit to it. I don't think CDA is an attempt to say that only PNW can lay claim to this style, anymore than the IPA style insists on a beer being brewed in Burton and then shipped across the world to India before declaring it properly matured.

Please join others in developing the proposed style guidelines to accurately depict an exciting new style. The description currently mentions PNW hops, I personally think this should be removed. Making a CDA with EKG, Saaz, or NZ Pacific Gem would kick ass. If there's a problem with the description, let's give constructive criticism and seek a more accurate set of guidelines.

Once you try Hopworks's Secession CDA, it becomes clear that this style is not merely an IPA with Sinamar added, it is something new.

cheezydemon3 said:

I see, so now any beer is Cascadian?

Or maybe we should research where the barley was grown?

The credit for my award winning ribs should definitely absolutely go to the region the pig grew up in, or the region where the brown sugar was grown...........

And for the record, I grow my own hops.

Click to expand...

The title cites a region. This excludes everyone else.

It is the name I don't like, especially when the style was evidently invented elsewhere.

Again, think of India Pale Ale, Lambic (the name comes from Lembeek, a village in Belgium, Pilsner is named after Plzeň, Czech Republic, Bock is named after Einbock, Germany. All of these beers can be made outside of their regions of origin.

Names don't necessarily exclude others, they instead can tell a story. The name India Pale Ale evokes the history of the English empire and it was only through an attempt to better preserve beer over a long journey that the English discovered that copious use of hops makes for an interesting style.

The Cascadian Dark Ale style is an attempt to create a name that tells a story and evokes the region where hops are grown and where craft brewing had its most signifcant renaissance in North America. Whether you like it or not, the PNW is the "Cradle of civilization" when it comes to craft beer in America.

If someone in Vermont or Texas had worked as hard to popularize this style as Abram has, maybe we'd see a Texas Dark Ale or Green Mountain Ale category being proposed. However, this style is becoming VERY popular in the PNW and the momentum is building.

If anyone else is interested in PROMOTING this name and style, I'm starting a twitter feed to cover CDA-related news at twitter.com/cascadiandark and a facebook page as well.

I don't understand why there is so much hate out there regarding this name, and I'm going to continue to do everything I can to promote its use.

The etymology of India Pale Ale is completely and utterly wrong (see Ron Pattinson). Why contribute to yet another brewing myth and miss-attribution?

If the popularity of the style is the basis for the name, then perhaps all styles should be prefaced with Cali- or California.

I don't think the etymology is wrong. Hasn't Pattison just pointed out that IPAs were brewed stronger than 4% due to tax reasons and not necessarily to survive the voyage? The IPA name still comes from the voyage and the use of lots of hops is also related to that. Correct me if I'm wrong.

It's pretty clear that a lot of people located outside of Cascadia aren't going to like this name. Fine. I'll stop playing the troll-bait on this thread.

cheezydemon3 said:

The title cites a region. This excludes everyone else.

It is the name I don't like, especially when the style was evidently invented elsewhere.

Click to expand...

BJCP styles that cite a region in a title are NOT meant to be exclusive. They are meant to describe the region in which the style originated [EDIT: or became popularized]. People are getting their hackles up over nothing.

Think:
Northern English Brown
Southern English Brown
any of the English Bitters
any of the Belgian Ales
any of the American Ales
any of the German Lagers
Bohemian Pils
German Pils
etc.
etc.
etc.

Geography is a big part of understanding world brewing styles. It is unclear why people would argue with an American style that is devoted to a particular region of North America (which also includes British Columbia, Canada by most, BTW!).