Wow--what a difference aeration makes!

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erikrocks

erikrocks

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I just wanted to post this to anyone who still shakes the carboy and/or is thinking about a different way to aerate. Iv'e only been brewing for a little over a year now, but got into yeast washing pretty early on (thanks to HBT). I use a stir plate--and rock the carboy back and forth for a minute or two after pitching into the finished wort--and my beers have come out well, but it usually takes a couple of days before I see a sign of active fermentation in my carboy.

Well, I brewed last night and used, for the first time, my new aeration pump that I bought from B3. I pitched at 7PM and it was bubbling 12 hours later! For $35, I couldn't be happier.
 
I just got this same setup from Northern Brewer but haven't had a chance to use it yet. Can wait to see if it makes a difference since I'm doing the shake method right now as well.

How long did you run the pump for?
 
I've got one and stopped using it. I stopped using it because I would put it in, and then turn on the pump and it would fill the head space in the carboy within a minute with foam, and then I'd have to wait 5 or 10 minutes for that to die down. Then it would repeat, so to aerate 5 minutes would take me over half an hour.
Am I doing it wrong?
So after that I heard an interview with someone from Wyeast, and based on what they said I just started shaking my carboys for 5 whole minutes each. It was a podcast interview on homebrewtalk.com. They said that after doing tests on O2 levels that shaking a carboy for 5 minutes got as much O2 in the wort as a pump, or using pure O2.
Since then I've had mixed results about start time, that I wrote off to yeast health, but looking back could have been strongly influenced by levels of O2.
Thoughts?
 
It's always better to hit the wort with some air...whether that's shakeing, using an aquarium pump w/filter & stone, or pure O2. The yeast need the O2 to start the reproduction and metabolism processes, which helps them get to work quicker.
 
I got a Stone and O2 tank yesterday and used it the first time instructions say for a 1.070 + ale to let it run for 2.5min to 3 min so i went for 2.5 this time.. Plus i made a 2 day build up starter and with in 2 hours i had bubbles already.. Normally its 12 hours or so.. with the wyeasy 1056.. I was impressed.. reason i did both of these is i am looking for a higher attenuation rate.
 
Check out the info from a basic brewing radio podcast and you can see how different methods measured up. One thing you should not is that the first data point on the graph on page 4 was not done under equal circumstances.

The shaking/rocking was siphoned into the bottom of the vessel while all the others were siphoned into the "top" of the vessel. This resulted in more splashing and aerating for all the other methods except the shaking method. All the other data points should be correct from what I remember.
 
dleonard said:
I've got one and stopped using it. I stopped using it because I would put it in, and then turn on the pump and it would fill the head space in the carboy within a minute with foam, and then I'd have to wait 5 or 10 minutes for that to die down. Then it would repeat, so to aerate 5 minutes would take me over half an hour.
Am I doing it wrong?
So after that I heard an interview with someone from Wyeast, and based on what they said I just started shaking my carboys for 5 whole minutes each. It was a podcast interview on homebrewtalk.com. They said that after doing tests on O2 levels that shaking a carboy for 5 minutes got as much O2 in the wort as a pump, or using pure O2.
Since then I've had mixed results about start time, that I wrote off to yeast health, but looking back could have been strongly influenced by levels of O2.
Thoughts?
Click to expand...

I've had the same problem. I have always done the splashy splash with great results.
 
I've been shaking then purging the headspace with pure oxygen, then shaking some more. I'm on my third batch (noob) and they always start bubbling within 18 hours.
 
I used a stone and regulator with O2 from Northern Brewer for all my brews in 2009. It worked great, but my setup had gotten too complicated. It wasn't as enjoyable.

For 2010, I went back to pouring the cooled wort between two sanitized pails four or five times. Less cleaning and sanitizing. Simple is good.

The finished product hasn't suffered. YMMV.
 
I always shake, always pitch a healthy starter, and always start within 12 hours.
 
Somewhere on the White Labs site was the suggestion to not use a stone, just the hose. This was to prevent foaming.

Sunday I tried siphoning through a stainless steel mesh colander/strainer set on top of the bucket, plenty of foam on top suggest plenty of air, I still stirred with the a paddle for about 5 minutes though. Pitched a (small) starter on it and it was bubbling 8 hours later when I checked it. This was a pretty big beer, 1.071 double IPA.
 
erikrocks said:
I just wanted to post this to anyone who still shakes the carboy and/or is thinking about a different way to aerate. Iv'e only been brewing for a little over a year now, but got into yeast washing pretty early on (thanks to HBT). I use a stir plate--and rock the carboy back and forth for a minute or two after pitching into the finished wort--and my beers have come out well, but it usually takes a couple of days before I see a sign of active fermentation in my carboy.

Well, I brewed last night and used, for the first time, my new aeration pump that I bought from B3. I pitched at 7PM and it was bubbling 12 hours later! For $35, I couldn't be happier.
Click to expand...

I rinsed and repitched some Notty and did some carboy shaking. I was past high krausen in 2.5 days. Maybe your water is oxygen resistant. :D

Also, after reading Chris' White's book, he suggests that it takes only 30 minutes for the yeast to deplete the oxygen in the wort. I waited 1 hour and shook some more, repeated twice. Still, never took me a couple of days with ANY of my brews to signs of fermentation, whether it be yeast making the wort cloudy, the yeast 'boiling' the wort or just plain old air lock activity.
 
I just got a $4 aquarium pump from WalMart and have been using plastic stones (just two uses each, $3 for a four-pack) lately, and haven't noticed any improvement at all over my previous methods, which were shaking and whisking the hell out of it with an electric egg beater. The buildup of foam and constant starting/stopping is a real pain in the ass. I just try to pitch either a big healthy starter or enough properly rehydrated dry yeast to do the job. I haven't had more than 24 hours lag time since my first 3-4 brews.
 
stevo155 said:
I just got this same setup from Northern Brewer but haven't had a chance to use it yet. Can wait to see if it makes a difference since I'm doing the shake method right now as well.

How long did you run the pump for?
Click to expand...

I ran my pump for about 30 min. The headspace eventually filled up with foam, but it wasn't nearly as bad as dleonard experienced.
 
I'm not denying that you can achieve the same results by shaking the carboy. In Jamil and Chris White's book, they say, "With plenty of headspace, a strong back, and lots of vigerous shaking, a homebrewer can get levels as high as 8ppm into the work." They go on to say that this is also the maximum you can get from an aquarium pump and stone.

Personally, the $35 I spent on the pump+stone allows me to achieve that 8ppm with the piece of mind that a.) I won't have to break my back by rocking the glass carboy back and forth and b.) I won't shank my arms and (more importantly) lose 6 hours of work by having a carboy slip out of my grip after a long day of brewing.
 
erikrocks said:
I'm not denying that you can achieve the same results by shaking the carboy. In Jamil and Chris White's book, they say, "With plenty of headspace, a strong back, and lots of vigerous shaking, a homebrewer can get levels as high as 8ppm into the work." They go on to say that this is also the maximum you can get from an aquarium pump and stone.

Personally, the $35 I spent on the pump+stone allows me to achieve that 8ppm with the piece of mind that a.) I won't have to break my back by rocking the glass carboy back and forth and b.) I won't shank my arms and (more importantly) lose 6 hours of work by having a carboy slip out of my grip after a long day of brewing.
Click to expand...

White also says that the yeast take up the oxygen in about 30 minutes time. So, a little shake here, a little shake there later.... all adds up in a couple of hours time. Not dissing the tool, but home brewers have been shaking their carboys for a long time and making beer. All the way from bad to great I suppose. Small batches don't require heroic efforts to make and everyone seems to be looking for that "magic bullet" that will change their beer to great beer.

Were you the OP? You had problems and if the new setup solved it, fine, but you were in the minority. Most of us have used shaking for a long time and not had problems with oxygenation levels.
 
Maybe I am wrong here, since I am pretty new to brewing, but I figure that my wort gets aerated enough since I have a screen inside my funnel that the wort passes through to get into the carboy. Does this not do most of what shaking the carboy for 5 minutes (or using a pump) would do? I do shake mine after everything is ready to go, but I only do it for less than a minute.

I also have had great results with this method, but maybe I am in the minority.
 
Yup, I'm the OP. Like I said, shaking can work just as well as the pump. I just like the piece of mind that a heavy class carboy full of valuable work won't slip out of my hands and shatter on my basement floor.
 
agodfrey11 said:
Maybe I am wrong here, since I am pretty new to brewing, but I figure that my wort gets aerated enough since I have a screen inside my funnel that the wort passes through to get into the carboy. Does this not do most of what shaking the carboy for 5 minutes (or using a pump) would do? I do shake mine after everything is ready to go, but I only do it for less than a minute.

I also have had great results with this method, but maybe I am in the minority.
Click to expand...

There is more than one way to skin a cat. I didn't start this thread to pronounce "everyone should get a pump." I was having some issues--probably as a result of being a timid shaker--and found a fairly cheap alternative.

If you like the shake method, and if it works for you, shake away!
 
agodfrey11 said:
Maybe I am wrong here, since I am pretty new to brewing, but I figure that my wort gets aerated enough since I have a screen inside my funnel that the wort passes through to get into the carboy. Does this not do most of what shaking the carboy for 5 minutes (or using a pump) would do? I do shake mine after everything is ready to go, but I only do it for less than a minute.

I also have had great results with this method, but maybe I am in the minority.
Click to expand...

Jamil and Palmer had some doctor of beerology on the show once. They were "AMEN"ing everything he said. When he said O2 wasn't needed by the home brewer and shaking worked fine, it was suddenly like they didn't know he was in the room. :rolleyes:
 
I wouldn't shake a glass carboy either. I try to do primary in buckets or Better Bottles, but if I was using glass I sure as hell wouldn't want to rock or shake it too vigorously.
Hermit said:
Jamil and Palmer had some doctor of beerology on the show once. They were "AMEN"ing everything he said. When he said O2 wasn't needed by the home brewer and shaking worked fine, it was suddenly like they didn't know he was in the room. :rolleyes:
Click to expand...
Jamil always seems set like concrete in his ways, and his ways primarily focus on how to brew a beer that wins competitions and submitting 500 at a go. Lots of good general information, but if you're interested in creating recipes or exploring a style I'd look elsewhere.
 
Grab the reins and start humping. It helps to have a 6.5gal's head space.

wortwortwort.jpg
 
One variable I have not heard people mention in their testimonials is whether they are doing full boils or not. A full boil would have much less O2 than the partial.
 
Personally the $60 i spent of the O2 tank and the stone kit from my LHBS pust the 10% discount card they have so i actually got it allfor $54 is way better than breaking my back and i get around 15-20 ppm in about 3 minutes.. with just the turn of the knob... :ban:
Btw first time i used the stone now was this week... I felt some of my higher OG beers were not attenuating enough plus i started pitching more yeast as well... so the last batch was a 1.078 and we will see how this works.. and yes its a full boil..
erikrocks said:
I'm not denying that you can achieve the same results by shaking the carboy. In Jamil and Chris White's book, they say, "With plenty of headspace, a strong back, and lots of vigerous shaking, a homebrewer can get levels as high as 8ppm into the work." They go on to say that this is also the maximum you can get from an aquarium pump and stone.

Personally, the $35 I spent on the pump+stone allows me to achieve that 8ppm with the piece of mind that a.) I won't have to break my back by rocking the glass carboy back and forth and b.) I won't shank my arms and (more importantly) lose 6 hours of work by having a carboy slip out of my grip after a long day of brewing.
Click to expand...
 

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