Anyone direct-firing MLT with BG 14?

Hey everyone,

I'm just wondering if anyone else out there is direct fire heating their MLT with a BG 14 burner. I purchased three of these so that I could use the same regulator for all burners. I'm going to be fabbing up the burner supports for the MLT in the next day or so and wanted to see if anyone had some experience with the distance from the burner to the bottom of the keggle. My supports will be height adjustable and if it turns out not working, I can always throw in a different support and had actually planned to for a 1/4" thick plate of aluminum to be a flame diffuser.

The pic below is my HLT, and the distances from the center of the hole to the top surface of the frame are 2", 3" and 4". I forgot to take into account that the distance of the burner holes up reduces that by probably a half inch. There is about 3/4 of steel below the bottom of the lowest hole and the end of the piece of steel, so I can always add another one if needed to give me a bit more distance.

Anyway, any suggestions would be great, and thanks in advance.

Gridlock,

My distance is 4.5 inches from the bottom of my keggles. It works great for me. On the MLT get your strike water too temp on a high flame (1.5 inches high) then reduce the flame at the solenoid ball valve just before you dough in (1/2-3/4 in high). This helps not only to not scorch your mash but also keeps the mash recirculation temp perfect without big temp swings. I think your 4 inch hole will work perfectly. Also, these burners are fantastic and quiet. The flames on your hlt and boil can be high flames. On the boil, start your burner with about 3 gallons of wort in it otherwise is will scorch the wort. Hope this helps.

Bartman- single tier guy

Thanks snake! I'm thinking I will drop the holes for the MLT another half-inch just to be safe. I can always crank it up if needed, and would rather be on the low side in the middle. I do have a few questions for you, just on things I don't quite understand.

What do you mean by "selanoid" ball valve? My experience with selanoids is with sprinkler systems controlled by the timer. Ours will be fully manually operated. Did you just mean turn the burner down at the ball valve?

For the boil kettle - I don't think I would ever turn on the flame before any liquid was in the kettle. Is that what you were trying to tell me what NOT to do?

Again, thanks!!!

Gridlock,
You got everything I was try to say. My system is automated, so I have ball valves leading to my gas solenoid valves. Also, 3 gallons is a good mark to fire up the boil kettle. Seems anything less could get scorched. PM with your email and I'll send you some pics.
Bartman

Awesome, thanks!
I noticed in your gallery that you don't have wind screens. Do you wish you had them or isn't it an issue?

Gridlocked said:

Hey everyone,

I'm just wondering if anyone else out there is direct fire heating their MLT with a BG 14 burner. I purchased three of these so that I could use the same regulator for all burners. I'm going to be fabbing up the burner supports for the MLT in the next day or so and wanted to see if anyone had some experience with the distance from the burner to the bottom of the keggle. My supports will be height adjustable and if it turns out not working, I can always throw in a different support and had actually planned to for a 1/4" thick plate of aluminum to be a flame diffuser.

Click to expand...

IMO & IME, the BG-14 won't work very well for direct firing a MT as it puts out way too much heat even at low settings. You can work around this by only firing the burner intermittently, but doing so manually will be a major PIA. Automating the burner with a solenoid valve and a pilot burner would take some of the pain out of it, but IMO it would be better to use a less powerful burner which is what I do.

Also, the aluminum diffuser plate won't work. It will melt. Trust me on that one. The 1/4" aluminum plate that I tried to use soon began dripping and eventually became a puddle under the burner. I'm pretty sure that yours will do the same.

Gridlock,
+1 for cat22's comments. I didn't take into account that your manual operation would be a PIA. Mine fires off and on like he said, guess in manual yours would be on constantly which is not what you want. You would get huge temp spicks, etc.. Since your building such an awesome stand why not keep going and automate it? Its beyond simple and not rocket science. The controllers are just digital on off switches for your gas valves. To answer your question about wind screens. I brew in my garage which is ideal for me. Its close to all my gear, water, etc.. I have fabricated them for my initial test but I literally had a melt-down and took them off. Guys are doing it though and I may in the future in order to take to brew club meeting or something. For now, in my garage out of the wind is perfect. Wind will definitely mess with your flame if not completely blow it out. The flame will swirl. click on my gallery and look at my system, click another time for a close up of the gas system. Mine is 1 step above manual. Also, I made some stainless inserts to protect the powdercoat from the flame. I haven't added them to the gallery but have picks. Diatonic built some also.
Bartman

Good to know about the aluminum. Would any kind of diffuser work? I can get pretty much anything I need with the steel/metal connections that I have.

I had not planned on heating the MLT constantly and I will be playing with insulating the keg wall so I don't have so much heat loss. The insulation that I will use can be fairly close to the flame without a problem.

Do either of you guys have or use one of those re-d button igniters- like used in a gas grill? like this

Gridlocked said:

Good to know about the aluminum. Would any kind of diffuser work? I can get pretty much anything I need with the steel/metal connections that I have.

I had not planned on heating the MLT constantly and I will be playing with insulating the keg wall so I don't have so much heat loss. The insulation that I will use can be fairly close to the flame without a problem.

Do either of you guys have or use one of those re-d button igniters- like used in a gas grill? like this

Click to expand...

I use a solid 1/8" x 12" solid copper heat diffuser on my MLT, but it was not cheap to buy. A steel or cast iron diffuser would also work well. Not as good as the copper one, but it will do the job.

get one of these: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B001440WG8/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20 (shop around and you can find them for less)

or one of these: http://www.plumbingsupply.com/replacement-floor-drain-covers.html (You can usually find these at your local plumbing supply house)

I use a standing pilot burner like this: http://www.pexsupply.com/Honeywell-Q314A4586-Honeywell-Q314A4586-Pilot-Burner-4113000-p (you should be able to find these locally at your HVAC supply house as well)

You can easily automate your burner with a solenoid valve and a controller. I re-purpose my Johnson A419 controller (used on my chest freezer most of the time - borrow it for a few hours when brewing).

You will discover that it will be necessary to turn the burner on and off a lot. Not just now and then, but a lot.

Thank you for all the info and help! I REALLY appreciate it!

I will heed your advice and at least look into automating it, but I'll need a lot of help here as this wasn't even on my radar and I'm really not all that smart. Do you guys have links for parts? Does this require a control box with all the complicated internals, buttons, switches, temp gauges? The guts of those boxes makes my head bleed they're so complex.

Gridlocked said:

Thank you for all the info and help! I REALLY appreciate it!

I will heed your advice and at least look into automating it, but I'll need a lot of help here as this wasn't even on my radar and I'm really not all that smart. Do you guys have links for parts? Does this require a control box with all the complicated internals, buttons, switches, temp gauges? The guts of those boxes makes my head bleed they're so complex.

Click to expand...

I bought my solenoid valve from these guys: http://cgi.ebay.com/3-8-Electric-So...530?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item43a3f23da2

I suggest that you contact their tech support and tell them what you are using the valve for. They will recommend the right valve and they are familiar with us home brewers. Their tech support is very friendly and helpful. They also respond quickly to emails etc. Good people and good products.

You can use a Johnson A419 digital temp controller, a Love temp controller or a Ranco. Any of those will work. A fancy control panel is not needed if you go with a 110v AC actuated solenoid valve as you can hook it up directly to the controller without needing relays etc. This is the simple approach with no PID's, relays etc. It works for me just fine. It doesn't need to be complicated IMO.

So, if you have time and don't mind, could you walk me through the mechanics? I'm extremely familiar with lawn irrigation systems, so I have some knowledge of this, but if you could help me understand it a bit better, I'd be SO thankful.

Gas supply set up:
Manifold, nipple, ball valve, nipple, selanoid, flex-line to burner.

Would I install a digital thermometer to the side of the MLT and attach the temp controller to the thermometer. The thermometer then calls for heat, sends a signal to the controller and the controller opens the selanoid. The pilot light ignites the gas until the thermometer sends the "temp is good" signal back to the controller and the selanoid closes the valve.

How is the controller powered?
If it's not a fully automated system, where is that mounted?
How is it powered?
Suggestions for thermometers?

Catt22 has got it locked on. This forum has experts on hooking things up. There are tons of wiring diagrams for this very purpose. Sorry, but once you start, you can't quit until its automated. I use love 2 love controllers and stc gas valves but they are the same as the ebay item above.All 110 volt as talked about above. No tranformers for me. No ignitors on my stand but my next build may have them (automatic). Kladue is the expert on gas auto automation. I use a standing pilot light which stays on the entire session. I light it once and forget about it. The boil is all manual with no pilot. Are you getting excited now?
Bartman

You got it right. The controllers come with a temp probe. You then use a thermowell to stick it into the path of the liquid. Shoot me an email at [email protected], i'll send you some info.

HA HA! Can I only automate the MLT burner? I'm a simple man and would rather turn a valve with my hands than figure out how to get a sensor to do that for me. I'm ok with the pilot, that's no problem.

Excited and confused.

It ain't pretty, but here's a couple of pics of my semi-automatic MLT burner:





The controller can be mounted just about anywhere that is convenient and easily viewed. I did not bother to automate the pilot burner. It stays lit for the entire mash duration once initially ignited. I have the controller probe mounted on the output side of the pump. You will want it to control the temperature of the wort exiting the MT. A probe directly in the mash does not work well because the lag time between applying heat and the mash temp increasing is much too long. The tendency would be to overshoot/undershoot the mash temps and probably both. Both the controller and the solenoid valve operate on 110v AC, so it's more or less just plug and play.

Yes, you can only automate the MT burner which is exactly what I have done with my RIMS. I heat the sparge water in an elevated Ice Cube cooler using a bucket heater on a timer. Strike water is heated directly in the MT.

Sure,
you can do anything you want with your stand. But, its nice to dial in a temp then let the system fire up and do the work for you while you do something else. Heating up sparge water while your mash is kicking on and off is what I'm talking about. While your preoccupied with the mash, your hlt has heated and shut off without you worrying about it. Bottom line you can manual everything, but MT and HLT are awesome with the help of automation. The boil is manual because you just boil at 212, thats it.