Do homebrewers favor UK/Irish beers over German/Continental?

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McCall St. Brewer

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I don't mean to start a big controversy here (well, actually maybe I do :)) but since I started homebrewing and since I started following this forum, I think I have noticed something. It seems to me that in the brews people here make and in the commercial brews they buy from stores, there seems to be a bias toward beers from the UK and Ireland at the expense of German and other Continental beers.

I have lived in Milwaukee for over 20 years. Here "imports" for much of the time I have been here have tended to be German. That seems to be changing a bit in recent years. Most places I go now that have lots of beers on tap tend to have lots of American microbrews and also lots of ales from the UK and Ireland.

I wonder if for homebrewers the word "ale" is key? Since most of us probably make more ales than lagers, perhaps we also tend to drink commercial ales, too?

I love almost all beer, and I really enjoy the beer I am able to make myself. I have to admit, though, that I often wish it were easier to make lagers.
 
I'm a newcomer to all this, so I can't speak about any general trends, but my preference is toward Belgian ales. All four of my batches were varieties of Belgian ale recipes, and I'm planning on doing another next week.

The reason for my bias is that during the last few years, I came to love Belgian beer and American Belgian-style clones (e.g., Victory Golden Monkey, Bell's Sparkling Ale, Pranqster, etc.), and that's all I buy anymore. If I can figure out how to make a truly close Duvel clone, I'll be a happy camper!!
 
mmditter said:
I wonder if for homebrewers the word "ale" is key? Since most of us probably make more ales than lagers, perhaps we also tend to drink commercial ales, too.
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I think this is the answer you're looking for. Most homebrewers start by making simple ales. You don't need refrigeration to control fermentation temperatures or decoction mashing techniques. Since the UK and Ireland have such a long ale brewing tradition, it only makes sense that their ales would dominate the discussion.
 
Yes, I agree with Brewsmith. Ales are easier to brew and are ready to drink much faster than German style lagers. Many homebrewers are reluctant to try lagers because of the time and temperature constraints. I just bottled my 1st Helles lager after brewing ales for three years. It wasn't to hard to do once I decided to try it. You have to have refridgerator dedicated for lagering. I will continue to brew lagers and ales with the seasons dictating which type.
 
Along similar lines, I think ale styles are generally more forgiving than lager styles.

In my opinion, a pretty-good ale is still quite enjoyable to drink, whereas I have no desire to drink a pretty-good lager. I only like really goood lagers.

As Walker was saying recently, this is what's so amazing about the big macroswill breweries: the quality control necessary to brew an extremely light colored, extreme light flavored lager and have it come out the same every time is just staggering. As homebrewers we know that we can brew from the exact recipe twice and get surprisingly different results.
 
i favor irish/english style ales in my own brewing. commercially i prefer ale over a lager any day of the week, coupled by the fact that to homebrew 'good' lager i'd need a more elaborate setup(lagering facilities), and perhaps a little more complicated brewing procedure(more decoction or stepped mashes). at the moment i'm not interested in either of the two, and am quite content to produce quaffable bitters and pales, with the occasional stout or barley wine.

now i do on occassion make a german stlye ale, with german malt and hops and yeast, but it's prolly still closer in style to the english/irish ale.
 
Brewsmith summed it up. Brewing ales is easier, and I tend to prefer ales over lagers, so since the UK / Ireland are well known for their ales it's just the way things work out.
 
Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but most german beers are ales also, right? Hefe Weizens are fermented with ale yeast. I agree about the ale vs. lager thing, but grouping all German beers in there isn't correct.

Personally, I haven't found a whole lot of lagers that I like as much as most Pale Ales.
 
I think the idea here is clear, American and British home brewers favor ales because of the simpler brewing technique necessary to make a good ale. The authentic masching schedule of a single infusion is so much better suited for the home brewer than the more complicated step mashes from Germany. Ales, especially the darker ones, are also pretty forgiving abount less then ideal brewing and fermentation techniques. Another driving factor I see here is that many home brewers just don't want to have this clean, chrisp taste that Bud and Co spoiled for them. They want to go into the other direction, darker and hoppier.

Mircobrewers tend to think similar. Though for them there is also the added economical factor of being able to tie up parts of their fermentation capacity for lagering a lager.

I like the taste of light (only in color and bitterness) lagers and I'm brewing mostly german styles. This is mostly a heritage thing and I also didn't start brewing until I had a dedicated fermentation/lagering fridge. Even the top fermenting German syles Koelsch and Alt require some cold lagering to be done right.

There is nothing better then sitting on the back porch and downing a Mass of good Helles or Maerzen. But the beer imported from Germany doen't seem to taste right. It might be the long shipping.

Kai
 
God Emporer BillyBrew said:
Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but most german beers are ales also, right? Hefe Weizens are fermented with ale yeast. I agree about the ale vs. lager thing, but grouping all German beers in there isn't correct.

Personally, I haven't found a whole lot of lagers that I like as much as most Pale Ales.
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There are lots and lots of lagers made in Germany, though, and they tend to have a LOT more flavor than the "BMC" stuff made in the U.S. I think in recent years, though, weiss beers have become the most popular German beers.
 
There could also be a self-selection factor at work. If ales are easier to successfully brew, it is pretty safe to assume that over time, those who prefers lagers will tend to fall away from the hobby (obsession, whatever) at a faster rate than ale drinkers, leaving the ale drinkers predominent.

I was always more of an ale guy anyway - I drank mostly Yeungling's Chesterfield Ale and some others before I began brewing my own.
 
SteveM said:
There could also be a self-selection factor at work. If ales are easier to successfully brew, it is pretty safe to assume that over time, those who prefers lagers will tend to fall away from the hobby (obsession, whatever) at a faster rate than ale drinkers, leaving the ale drinkers predominent.
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Hmmm . . . . so natural selection is at work here? Meaning that Ale drinkers are the stronger, dominant species. :rockin: :rockin:

I can go with that!:mug:
 
SteveM said:
self-selection factor at work. If ales are easier to successfully brew, it is pretty safe to assume that over time, those who prefers lagers will tend to fall away from the hobby (obsession, whatever) at a faster rate than ale drinkers, leaving the ale drinkers predominent.
Click to expand...

I don't think that all of us are looking for an easy way of making beer. If this would be the case, I'd still buy my beer at the store. I'm in for the knowledge that can be aquired and applied to this hobby.

Kai
 
i like almost all beers except hefe's and brown ales.

My take on this is i grew up drinking mega-swill lagers, and what not, but it was IPA's that got me hooked on 'real' beer. For me, and i would think alot of people, pale ales, and stouts are like a gateway beer that once you realize how GOOD beer can really be, eventially you come around and discover REAL lagers too, like pilsner urquel, budvar, bocks and the like.

as far as brewing this summer i plan on doing the old switch-a-roo, or is it flip-flop?
that is to say im going to be brewing lagers all summer, i can easily brew ales all winter without a fridge, but now im forced to use a fridge. I cant wait really, untill now ive only brewed pseudo-lagers (cali ales).

i have a feeling though, that in the future i might be using my fridge for ales as well...we'll see!
 
I favour English Ales but then I was raised with them. I've never drunk lager in a pub and probably never will. To me it's nothing to do with what's easier to brew it's more to do with what I prefer to drink.

I also have an American style wheat on tap right now which is nice and am planning a hefe this weekend but English ales are the way forward for me!!
 
For me, I started brewing ales because I don't have the equipment to brew lagers. Then I dsicovered the abundance of good ale recipes, and haven't given much thought to brewing lager. Once I get down to a few ales that I really like and enjoy, I plan to branch into lagers.

Then comes the storage question. Do I really want to tie up some of my valuable equipment for months to ferment one batch of beer? I'm putting together equipment to brew all-grain, and basing it on a 10 gallon batch size beause I can't seem to make a 5 gallon batch last more than a month. I could ferment 3 or 4 ales in that carboy in the time it takes to do one lager.
 
for the record i prefer american ales over any other styles of beer anywhere. But, as for english vs. german. I think for one, on this forum, the tendency towards english ale might be b/c of the amount of english people on this site, there's no germans on here talking about german lagers. but for me i much prefer a german beer to an english or irish one. i agree with kai about german beers in america not tasting quite right. part of the reason i like german beers is that the techniques involved are so advanced, and fascinating really. they were able to lager their beers because of geogrphical situation, and thier beers evolved along with their geo. situation. same with beers in englaand, but nowadays everyone makes ales that are based off of traditional english ales. theyre just more readily available as are the ingredients. howver you don't see many breweries outside of germany making a doppelbock. i give a lot of thanks to the english and tieir imperialist past for IPA though.
 
Kaiser said:
I don't think that all of us are looking for an easy way of making beer...
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Easier to brew successfully. My choice of words might not have been the best. Possibly a more accurate rendering of what I intended by that is, "more likely to result in a successful outcome."

When I am in the middle of siphoning out a brew to a tertiary fermenter to try to clear the fruit gack that is needed to make a fruit ale, I am not thinking about how easy it is. But I am pretty confident in the ultimate outcome.

But if I am a lager brewer, I need to have a place to store my beer for extended periods at temperatures that we don't normally have available to us in residences.

All things being equal, if successes are more likely making ales than making lagers, I think it is rational to believe that over time, more ale brewers will stick with it and lager brewers will fall away.
:mug:
 
mmditter said:
I have lived in Milwaukee for over 20 years. Here "imports" for much of the time I have been here have tended to be German.
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Thats cuz it's Milwaukee. Most the imports here historicly are German because if it wasnt for the recent influx of latinos in the last 20 years and the influx of blacks after the civil war Milwaukee would only be Germans and poles . . . plus a few of us honery Irish inthe 3rd ward and a couple Italians up by Brady street.

Just like most of the sausage here is German (brats and such) most of the beer is too. Look at the brewerys that were and are still here . . . Miller, Schlitz, Pabts, Blatz and even to the North you have Hielemans, Liene's (Frank Whale and George Ruder), and I'm probably missing a ton . . . but they are all Germans.

Hell find a older fireman and they are all German or Polish too. My first year in the firehouse all we had was German food (thankfully it grows on ya cuz I really didnt like it at first).

Personally I prefer ales, not because they are easier to make but I'm just not a lager guy, infast I avoid Pilsners cuz I just really dont like them much. If I had to pin myself to a type of ale I tend to stay with more of the Irish and ScCottich stuff mainly becaue I like maltier brews but I do the Browns and Porters too. I doubt you'll ever catch me making a IPA or a Bitter, I'm just not a big hop head.
 
SteveM said:
All things being equal, if successes are more likely making ales than making lagers, I think it is rational to believe that over time, more ale brewers will stick with it and lager brewers will fall away.
Click to expand...

Granted, ales are easier to make and thus most homebrewers tend to start with them and many will stick with them. Just because they like Ales. But I believe that home brewers brew the styles they like and not necessarily the styles that are easiest to brew. And if you really like the taste of lagers, chances are you will get out of your way and start finding that fridge.

Over in Germany I get the impression that most home brewers start out with ales but quickly start making lagers as well. Just because that's what they like.

Kai
 
I dunno, I like em all ( or most anyway) I like pilseners, (Chech lager) Bocks and Marzens (German Lagers) Hefes, (German Ale) Brown ale (England) Dubbels, Trippels, Abbleys (Belgian Ales) and more. And ifI like them, I brew them. I don't find lagers any harder to brew, either, they just take longer-a lot longer for some.
 
Pumbaa said:
Hell find a older fireman and they are all German or Polish too. My first year in the firehouse all we had was German food (thankfully it grows on ya cuz I really didnt like it at first).
Click to expand...

Speaking of firemen, a few years back when Milwaukee was celebrating some sort of milestone (sesquicentennial, maybe?) the Sentinel or the Journal had a series where they would feature interesting stories about old Milwaukee. One of the stories had to do with a tour some bigwigs took of a firestation. Apparently they had one particular fireman who was known for being able to drink prodigious amounts of beer. One of the visitors spied a fire bucket and asked the guy if he could drink a whole bucket full of beer. The fireman thought about it for a minute and then went in the back for a few minutes. When he came out he told them to fill the bucket with beer and proceeded to drink the whole thing down. The dignitaries were suitably impressed, and one of them said: "my, that was really something. But I'm curious about one thing: what was it that you were doing in the back room before you came back out here?" The fireman replied: "Oh. Well, I wasn't too sure I could drink the whole bucket of beer, so I wanted to go back there and try it first before I came out here and did it for you!"
 
Honestly, I've learned that I generally prefer American microbrewed beers over all others. One problem is that I don't know how old most European beers are when I try them, or how they've been handled. I've tried the same beer on different occaisions, loved it once, and hated it others. That's generally not as big a problem with beers brewed here.

Plus, I've also recently learned that I just don't like lagers. I've only had one that really knocked my socks off, and that one (an imperial pilsner served from a beer engine) was an odd bird. I haven't nailed down exactly what it is yet, but most lagers taste like crap to me. I much prefer ales, and have little interest now in lagering.

Back to the question, though, if given the choice, I'll generally choose a UK beer over a continental/German one. Unless that German beer is Aventinus.....then all bets are off. :D
 
mmditter said:
Speaking of firemen, a few years back when Milwaukee was celebrating some sort of milestone (sesquicentennial, maybe?) the Sentinel or the Journal had a series where they would feature interesting stories about old Milwaukee. One of the stories had to do with a tour some bigwigs took of a firestation. Apparently they had one particular fireman who was known for being able to drink prodigious amounts of beer. One of the visitors spied a fire bucket and asked the guy if he could drink a whole bucket full of beer. The fireman thought about it for a minute and then went in the back for a few minutes. When he came out he told them to fill the bucket with beer and proceeded to drink the whole thing down. The dignitaries were suitably impressed, and one of them said: "my, that was really something. But I'm curious about one thing: what was it that you were doing in the back room before you came back out here?" The fireman replied: "Oh. Well, I wasn't too sure I could drink the whole bucket of beer, so I wanted to go back there and try it first before I came out here and did it for you!"
Click to expand...

Yeah I got on the job WAY too late. Since the mid 70's, when the Milwaukee fire department started providing EMS services, we are no longer allowed to have beer or booze in the firehouse. Prior to that the best stocked and maintained bars in the city were in the firehouses. In fact one of the cub's (the guy with the least amount of time on the job) was to go out and get the drinks for the day.

Also if you look most of the older firehouses they are all right next door to a bar or what used to be a bar. Engine 7 (Chase and Euclid), Engine 6 (Franklin and Brady), Engine 3 (Water and Virgina), Headquaters/Engine 2/Engine 20 (7th and Wells) are all next to bers and thats just off the top of my head. It also wasnt uncommon for the cub to be at the joker stand (the old telegraph system the runs came in on) by himself. If a run would come in he would have to run next door to get the guys out of the bar to go on the run.

Engine XX had a bar behind it that went out of business after 100 years when the policy changed. About few years ago when the owner hung himself on Christmas eve he was given a full firedpeartment funeral . . . unoffically. We got in a **** load of trouble for it but the logic was XXXX did more for the fire department the the chief ever had, had more time "on the job" then the chief (even though XXXX was never a Fireman), and was just so loved by the guys that the Chief could go to hell. Oddly enuff it was worked out that 3 fire engines, 2 ladder trucks, and 2 battalion chiefs just happened to be sent to a cemetary miles away at the time XXXX was laid to rest. It also was a very ironic concidence that they seemed to lead the procession to the cemetary. It took some old school threats to keep it out of the media.
(left out comapnies numbers and names since there are some locals here and the story is still very hush hush)

Some of the old timers will often tell the story when a very big liquor store burned down up on the north side and the owner was more worried about getting his inventory out of the building then saving the building. In fact he told the guys what ever they could get out of the store they could keep knowing there was no way they could fit it all on their rigs. The building was a total loss but the guys saved 95% of the inventory and they estimate they took 50% of it back to the firehouses. Never underestimate what you can fit in the hose beds, because they had to go back and pick up their hoses AFTER they dropped off their booze.

When they tear down old firehouses and take the poles out the poles are FULL of the old style pull top tabs from beer cans and sometimes you will find some real cool old cans in them as well. Remember these poles are 3 stories tall, 5 inches poles, and they are also full to the top with the tabs.
 
Must have something to do with having to climb up on those ladders! Lots of roofers tend to like to drink a lot, too.

I remember back in the late 80's I had to go to see a client, an old Greek biker, who ran a bar on State Street. I went there either in the middle of the morning or the middle of the afternoon, I can't remember which, but anyway, the place was kind of full for that time of the day. The guys who were in there were drinking their beer rather quickly, I thought, and it was actually kind of funny because even though the owner was pretty much ignoring the customers while he talked to me, the customers, who must have been used to this, would go around and tap their own beers and ring them up themselves on the register.

To get to the point of my story, though, suddenly after about 15 minutes, the whole place cleared out almost completely. I somewhat innocently asked where the fire was, and it turned out they were all brewery workers on their break! Those were the days, I guess, but call me naive if you want, but don't some of those brewery workers have jobs that involve running dangerous machinery?

I remember, too, that a guy that I knew when I was in school got a job working at the Miller Corporate Headquarters. He said that there were beer tappers set up all through the offices and that you could tap yourself a beer any time you wanted during the course of a day.

Gee-- I'm self-employed now. Maybe I should set one up at my office!
 
I must be the black sheep of the brew board as I will take a smooth rich, and creamy doppel-bock, over a mean and nasty bitter ale any day. Now I must admit, my experience with good quality fresh brewed ales is limited, as when out at a bar I will always opt for something dark and German before something pale and English. I will be expanding my horizons here, and for the record I love European Wheat beers. I hope to brew a few ales for ****s and giggles and hell maybe I’ll even like one.As far as lagering in cold storage goes. I will give that beer the time it needs to become the high quality complex animal it yearns to be. I live in the North East and my cellar temp today is 52F (outside temp 32F)
I wonder if it will sustain these temps in the summer or if it will come up to 58-65 range,
I suppose I could brew lagers in the winter and ales in the summer?
 
Bjorn Borg said:
i like almost all beers except hefe's and brown ales.

My take on this is i grew up drinking mega-swill lagers, and what not, but it was IPA's that got me hooked on 'real' beer. For me, and i would think alot of people, pale ales, and stouts are like a gateway beer that once you realize how GOOD beer can really be, eventially you come around and discover REAL lagers too, like pilsner urquel, budvar, bocks and the like.
Click to expand...

I totally agree on both points! The first IPA I had was either Acme or Boonville, and it was down hill from there. :D Stout was an acquired taste, though. Now my favs are Young's Double Chocolate and North Coast's Old Rasputin.

SwAMi75 said:
Honestly, I've learned that I generally prefer American microbrewed beers over all others. One problem is that I don't know how old most European beers are when I try them, or how they've been handled.
Click to expand...

I also agree with this. Another problem is availability of the less popular brews. Usually I find something new and a month later it is gone for another three.

On a side note, I did find a local liquor store that apparently is run by a real beer nut(pun intended). He has stuff from the next county to the four corners of the world. Problem is none of it moves real fast so most of it is getting stale on the shelves(it looks like a regular seedy liquor store until you get halfway to the back, so it doesn't exactly draw enthusiasts).
 

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